boats and city ordinance

[stl]

Anybody ever have any trouble with parking their boat in the driveway? I have a 14 foot jon boat and trailer in my drive. Today I got a letter from the city of Maplewood Missouri stating that I was in violation of city ordinance. "No person shall park a RV/Trailer/Boat on property unless it is at least 50 feet from the front property line and on a paved surface." I measured from my side of the front sidewalk to the tounge of the trailer and it is 56 feet. My interpretation is that I am in compliance. The letter also states "At the expiration of the seven day period referenced in the notice above, the city will re-check the violation to see if it has been corrected. If the violation was not corrected, the city will issue a summons or warrant to the property owner or person responsible for creating or maintaining the nuisance per ordinance 12-65. There will no further warnings. Recurring Violations per ordinance 15-64 will result in immediate abatement ans summons issued." I am not sure what all the legal jargon means. Anybody had any similar expeirences.

 

[DJ]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Yup, that's why mine is in the garage. I had the tongue made removable so I could do that. That's all fine with me, I knew that when I moved here.

In your case, you need to go before the "ordinance" Board or Committee and tell them that their tape measure may be wrong. I doubt the ordinance officer ever got out of his/her vehicle. Also, the sidewalk may not be the end of the City "Right of Way". The city should be able to tell you that.

Plan an entire day to get to the bottom of it.

 

[fishmen111]

Re: boats and city ordinance

If you are on pavement and 56' from the property line, go ahead and get the summons, appear and tell them to KYA! My little Mayberry RFD wannabe town pulls crap like that all the time. Be careful though, quite often your property line is not exactly where you think it is due to city/county easements. In our city, it is the sidewalk plus 4'. Verify first and then tell them to KYA.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Some ordinances of this nature require that the front of the vehicle not extend past the front of the house. That means the vehicle must be stored at the side of the house and usually on a paved surface. In most newer developments there is not enough side yard for that. Just another way to make sure you don't "clutter" the neighborhood. Yet it's ok for your neighbor to park a beat up mud truck out front as long as it's licensed and insured.

 

[arboldt]

Re: boats and city ordinance

If you own the house, you should have gotten a copy of the survey required by the mortgage company. That would give you the exact property lines. The survey is probably small enough you can't really measure anything, but it should give youi the distance from the edge of a building (your house or garage) to the edge of the property. If that distance is more than 50' + length of boat and trailer, then it sounds like you're ok legally.

It's highly likely the inspector didn't even get out of his vehicle or make any firm measurements before he issued the warning.

You might want to call the office that sent the letter and request information on the appeal process. In some jurisdictions, you have a limited time to file an appeal of fact, and that may be shorter that the next-step the letter indicated. Find out what that appeal process is, and follow it to the letter. *Every* finding by any governmental agency must be subject to appeal, so go for it. Always be polite no matter how #$% they can be. But be sure to stick to the facts.

If there is no formal appeal, then write them a letter indicating

1) You asked what the appeal process was and was told there wasn't any.
2) You dispute the facts of the matter because your boat and trailer exceed the minimum setback distance, and according to them, is within the ordinance.
3) Mail your letter to them certified / return-receipt-requested.

You may want to include photos of the measuring tape (be sure to use one continuous tape) showing beginning point and point of the trailer coupling. The beginning point should be the lot line as best you can determine from the survey. Be assured they won't just take your word for it.

Now if you're renting or don't have a survey, you should be able to get one online or from a different city / county office, although that's a PITA.

Finally, try to figure out which neighbor filed a compaint with the city.

 

[JB]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Aint city living wonderful??

Bring your boat to The Hideout and I will let you park it anywhere you please. Oh, you don't mind if I use it while you are at work, do you??

 

[wvit1001]

Re: boats and city ordinance

There are good reasons for this type of regulation. Most regulations were adopted and are enforced to make it easier to live in a city where everyone is close to each other.

You can't just measure from the back of the sidewalk to your boat, that may or may not be the property line. If you own the home you should know where the property line is. If you don't you need to contact your Register of Deeds office and get a copy of your plat map. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars.

You may be able to tell where your property line is based on that map and you may not. But at least you'll have a copy. The only real way to find your property line is to find a property iron at one of the corners. Once you have a plat map you can get pretty close to the corner and then with a metal detector find the actual iron.

 

[wvit1001]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Here's a link to the St. Louis GIS site. This has property information that may help you. Follow the directions -

http://gis.stlouisco.com/

 

[jameskb2]

Re: boats and city ordinance

A simple way to judge the rough property line is to look at the phone or electric pedestals or transformers. These utility access points are almost always in the public right of way. They are also usually set right on the property line that divides you from your neighbor. It also depends on the plat. Every state has it's different methods, and they can vary from county to county as well. My property line is the center of the road, with a 33' easement for public right of way. (Road, shoulder, sidewalk and utilities) Most "plats", where there was a structured lot development made on a former large parcel, have ownership TO the public right of way. The county or the general plat owns the road and sidewalk area, typically 66' in width, 33' from center of the road. I actually own to the center of the road, but have to allow anyone to travel on my property 33' in from the line because of the easement. My parcel is very old, and was created in a split and not a plat.

As I said, it can vary from state to state, county to county. One could call the building permit department to get a quick answer over the phone for your plat. They usually know just from dealing with the permit process what setbacks and lines are there. Or, ask a competent builder if you know one as a friend.

 

[BamaAlum97]

Re: boats and city ordinance

If you are on a corner lot, you have to be 50ft from the property line on both sides with a street.

Your best bet is to call and have someone show you the basis of the violation. In my experience, you've got to jump through some hoops if you wanna park your boat at your house (not in the garage).

 

[stl]

Re: boats and city ordinance

You guys are gonna love this one. I have a copy of my survey and it looks like the property line starts a couple of feet on my side of the sidewalk, which means I am still within the fifty foot mark. I called the code enforcement officer today and talked to him. He said the property line is actually the front of the house. The ordinance states the front property line. To me that means the line out toward the street. So the first 25 feet of my front yard does not even count even though I own it.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: boats and city ordinance

You need to call back and talk to that officers supervisor.
Someone has some terminolgy mixed up or confused.

 

[jameskb2]

Re: boats and city ordinance

STL,

Do you have enough room on your side lot to park the boat? Between the garage and the lot line?

If so, I'd "pave" the area with concrete patio pavers and park the boat on it.

Then, they can't say a word about it. You could just lay them right on top of the sod quick to get it done before they "check back". Then lay them in flush over a sanded grade if you care.

At least, I think that works. It's paved....right?

 

[Hashi]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Typical City bureaucracy.

 

[woosterken]

Re: boats and city ordinance

man that stinks,if they say your property line is the front of the house and not the yard,don't mow it come summer of send the city a bill for mowing it for them.

woosterken

 

[fishmen111]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Wow...I thought I lived in a triffling city. I cannot believe every boat in St. Louis has met that requirement. A guy one county over from me got a letter similar to yours. He cut a hole in his fence and put it on pavers like james suggested. The neighbor who turned him in and the county didn't like it, but he met the requirements and there was nothing more they could say.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: boats and city ordinance

I've had some similar trouble up here in MN. In my case, I had three boats parked in my large paved driveway. I moved into the house in Feb, and this was in August or so. I admit I was working outside on one, making a fair bit of noise grinding that summer, but I did always knock off before 7pm.

My neighbors (2, I'm told) complained to the city about the boats, saying they were "not in character for the neighborhood". They also complained about my working on them.

The city mailed me a complaint with a $300 fine, and said if the "problem" wasn't corrected by a certain date the fine would double.

According to the complaint, they stated that I could not park the boats there because they were not licensed in my name, and I could not work on them outside because the city code forbade working on vehicles for more than a day in the open.

The city code is badly written, frankly. Boats aren't defined as vehicles, but aren't explicitly defined as "equipment", and it isn't clear from the wording that is meant to apply to derelict cars being licensed that it doesn't apply to boats.

So the city argued that the ordnance meant to apply to derelict cars meant I couldn't park boats I own in my own driveway, even though they were legally parked, because I didn't have them titled in my name (I had the titles and bills of sale, just hadn't paid the fee to register them).

I went in for arbitration and it was a joke... a 21 year old girl and her supervisor on one side, me on the other, and a lawyer playing judge for a day. We presented our cases, and he did the expected thing - halving the fine as long as I didn't have any "storage related offenses" in the next year. He also ignored the wording of the city code, claiming that "it's obvious boats are vehicles" and therefore subject to the rules on derelict cars.

I still haven't paid the fine, and I haven't heard from the city this winter... I expect to get more BS from them shortly though, as the snow melts. I still have one boat in my driveway not titled to me, it'll probably go away soon just because I want to get another one I titled the other one in my name and worked on it in the garage all winter. The third one went to the dump.

All this because I had a senior citizen neighbor with a pain in the butt view about what should be allowed in "her" neighborhood. I was hoping she'd have a nasty fall on the ice this winter, but no luck.

Erik

 

[stl]

Re: boats and city ordinance

Wow...I thought I lived in a triffling city. I cannot believe every boat in St. Louis has met that requirement. A guy one county over from me got a letter similar to yours. He cut a hole in his fence and put it on pavers like james suggested. The neighbor who turned him in and the county didn't like it, but he met the requirements and there was nothing more they could say.

Maplewood is actually a small suburb right outside of St. Louis about 5000 people with there own police force and their own set of regulations. If I lived in the city I could probably blend in a little easier, but my rig would have probably been stolen by now. What really burns me up is the interpretation of the ordinance. It is like they changed the rules in the middle of the game. I read the ordinance when I bought the house so I thought I was in good shape. Now all of a sudden the rules have changed. My wife wants me to go ahead and take the summons. That way I will have a chance to pleade my case. What do you guys think

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: boats and city ordinance

find exactly where the property line is, even have a survey find it. map where the boat is. if it is within the guidelines, take the summons, and take the survey map, when you go. you have a nasty neighbor complaining.

 

[stl]

Re: boats and city ordinance

When I spoke to the code officer today he said that no one in particular complained about me but they have had a lot of complaints in general lately and the city asked him to do a general sweep. I don't know if I buy this or not I still see a lot of utility trailers in driveways on my street. But then I have not moved my boat yet either. I have a pretty good idea where my front property line is. The BS part is that they say the ordinance means from the front of the house. If thats what it means then it should say that. I am usually a go with the flow kinda guy and easily shrug things off, but I have to admit this deal has really got me down. Kind of taking the wind out of my sails.