Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

jkru

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
77
I have a Sea Ray 260 that weighs in around 7400 dry. The gross weight with fuel and trailer let?s say is 9500lbs. The trailer is a tandem axle Magic Tilt 2882 which is designed for a 28' boat. Originally it came with Surge Hydraulic drums on one axle; you can imagine that this did nothing. I paid some idiot shop (I will not mention C.J. Marine in Des Moines, WA here as that would not be appropriate  ) to put disc brakes on it and they ran a bunch of lines everywhere with 12" discs, put a lock out solenoid on and connected it to the drum brake actuator; I ended up in a middle of an intersection skidding :(. I didn?t take it back and cut my losses. I tried ordering the disc brake actuator, Six Roblees gave me a Drum brake one and I didn?t realize it till after, it seemed to work for a mile or two then failed. I finally said forget this noise and took it into what seems to be a reputable operation. They told me the following: Contrary to popular belief brake fluid can compress and because of the size of my trailer, weight and length of my lines I would be better off with Electric Brake Rite II of Hydraulic system and that its unlikely surge brakes will work right for me. Everything he said seemed to make sense but what gets me is why would they design a trailer with a single axle drum brake that was meant to carry 10K pounds when its rated for that? (That?s what the plate on the side says it can carry and I confirmed it with Magic Tilt).
Anyways can someone comment on Electric over Hydraulic and if that is the way to go for me. On other factor is I am 30-40% above the GVWR (NO LECTURE ON THIS, I HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOWN THIS PATH ON ANOTHER THREAD, I only two 2-5 miles) and there is a couple of steep grades along the way. The guy at the new shop said he felt bad and would try to do it for $850 which seems like a deal. I looked into doing the whole thing myself and I was into it in parts alone for almost that much.

Comments??
 

EsoxRanger

Seaman
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
61
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

They told me the following: Contrary to popular belief brake fluid can compress

I would avoid at all costs having somebody that thinks the seals in a brake system are capable of withstanding the huge pressures required to compress brake fluid. Bedsides, the amount that brake fluid can be compressed is so minute in relation to it's volume that even if compressing it were feasible, it would have virtually no effect upon brake performance.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,587
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

So what is your question? :)

If it is whether electric/hydraulic will work for you the answer is yes. I have the brake rite system and it works very well.

Should you put brakes on both axles? The answer to that is also yes. As you already know, brakes on one axle won't work and you will be forced into a skid once the tires on that axle reach the max amount of friction that they can apply before breaking loose.

Just for argument sake, even if brake fluid did compress, either a surge brake system or an electric/hydraulic system would work. Its the pressure that actuates the brakes. If it took more travel of the surge unit or more volume being pumped by the electric/hydraulic unit, the pressure would eventually reach what is needed to apply the brakes.
 

jkru

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
77
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

Thanks everyone...

I know I had lots of questions let me narrow it down. I think I wasnt sure what to ask.

I did call the guy back and ask him about the brake fluid compressing he said thats not really the issue he said the issue is having control over that brake fluid and that because I manually bead the brakes he said that you really need a powerbleeder for that length. I was told the brake rite system would give me more control over my braking situation as well as a more consistant braking experience. He said that pure Hydraulic is crude 1980's technology and although works is not nearly as effective as the newer system thus he recommended me going that route.

What I would find is that my actuator would always bottom out and I would not have braking ability or would not apply hard enough eventually just failing all together. I have blead the brakes twice.

So if I got you correctly what the BrakeRite will allow is more control over my brakeing and more consistant brakeing ability is this correct?
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,587
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

So if I got you correctly what the BrakeRite will allow is more control over my brakeing and more consistant brakeing ability is this correct?
You would have more control. That is for sure.

As far as your actuator bottoming out, it would either be your brakes not being bled correctly, your master cylinder failed or your drum brakes not adjusted properly.

Super easy to bleed with an electric over hydraulic system. Basically, you have someone pull the emergency switch, open the bleed screw and wait for the air bubble while someone is also adding brake fluid to the reservoir.
 

jkru

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
77
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

You would have more control. That is for sure.

As far as your actuator bottoming out, it would either be your brakes not being bled correctly, your master cylinder failed or your drum brakes not adjusted properly.

Super easy to bleed with an electric over hydraulic system. Basically, you have someone pull the emergency switch, open the bleed screw and wait for the air bubble while someone is also adding brake fluid to the reservoir.

Awsome.. Ill go with the brake rite system. I think it provides me the best saftey with the ease of maintainence.

Thansk Guys!
 

nlain

Commander
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
2,445
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

I have a much smaller trailer and load but, this spring my brake lines were all leaking, I replaced them all and gravity bled the brakes to get fluid to the calipers, then I chocked the wheels, dropped the hitch on the ball and worked them with the truck until I had all the air out, now they work fine. These systems are a little difficult to bleed, a power bleeder would be just wonderful. You need the proper actuator and a proper bleeding and those brakes should work for you.
 

Fl_Richard

Lieutenant
Joined
Jan 21, 2005
Messages
1,428
Re: Brakes not working.. Electric/Hydraulic brakes

It's tough to compress brake fluid but if the lines they ran are flexible the lines will expand.

They did run metal brake lines from the tongue to the axles right?
 
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