Break Out Another Thousand.

[Thajeffski]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

100 bucks? yea right buddy, that's more than a thousand or two.

 

[RickJ6956]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

If you had the trim up to the limit then that's probably why the boat wouldn't get up on plane with 7 people. Put the drive all the way down to plane, then adjust the trim.

Although Merc says you can run it at 1200 RPM with the drive all the way up, it will chatter and knock. I wouldn't run it higher than idle.

You can fix that hull damage yourself and save a whole lot of cash.

Ask around at the marina or launch to find a reputable prop shop. Pull the prop, then pull the drive and take both to the shop. (It will cost more if they have to pull the prop.) They'll be able to tell you if there's damage to the shaft or seals. Many prop repair shops don't do mechanical fixes, so they'll give you the straight scoop.

I don't know about $1,000+. In our area that's probably a few hundred dollars if there's nothing else wrong other than the prop and skeg.

 

[iop]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

This is why a chart of the area is invaluable.

!!!!!!

 

[SeanT]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

I've had stainless props worse than that rebuilt for $100. But all told the damage is greater.

Anyway, there's a few friends of mine that are looking at boats. Among the advice I give them (thanks to iBoats) is to NOT run a stainless steel prop on your first boat until you are familiar with the water. You _want_ the prop to melt off if you hit rocks.

Back when I had my first boat, I ran the stainless prop all the time and kept the aluminum one as a spare. Out on a lake I was new too, came off plane and hit some rocks in a really funny spot. Definitely wrong place at the wrong time. Ended up with a bent prop shaft and all kinds of leg problems, all told about 2 grand at the shop.

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Well, my plan is to pull the prop and take it to a shop to have it refurbished and a new hub put in. Then I'll reinstall and see how it runs (after fiberglass repair... anyone know a good DIY repair kit?)

After I put the new prop on, what should I look for as far as ourdrive damage goes? I can drain a little gear oil from the drive and check for milkiness as mentioned... but what does that mean? Broken seal I assume?

One more thing, upon closer inspection, the exhaust bellows popped off the drive (still attached to the transom). I know it doesn't hurt anything to run it like that, but I'm curious how that could have happened. Possibly when I was dragging the drive through the mud?

 

[SeanT]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

After I put the new prop on, what should I look for as far as ourdrive damage goes? I can drain a little gear oil from the drive and check for milkiness as mentioned... but what does that mean? Broken seal I assume?

Yes, check for milkiness. You shouldnt have to drain any. Your outdrive should have a short dipstick or fill hole in the top that you can stick a screwdriver into (if necessary)

In my case the leak was due to the very slight bend in the prop shaft. Out of water the lower leg would pass pressure tests. But in the water, spinning, the leg would leak. I actually would have just left it like that, except for the fact that it's not environmentally sound to be leaking oil like that.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Well, my plan is to pull the prop and take it to a shop to have it refurbished and a new hub put in. Then I'll reinstall and see how it runs (after fiberglass repair... anyone know a good DIY repair kit?)

After I put the new prop on, what should I look for as far as ourdrive damage goes? I can drain a little gear oil from the drive and check for milkiness as mentioned... but what does that mean? Broken seal I assume?

One more thing, upon closer inspection, the exhaust bellows popped off the drive (still attached to the transom). I know it doesn't hurt anything to run it like that, but I'm curious how that could have happened. Possibly when I was dragging the drive through the mud?

Wow.

I think you are way underestimating the potential damage and the costs to get it fixed. If your bellows came off you may have some serious damage to the bellhousing/gimbal ring. About the only way the bellows would come off is if the drive itself was pull rearward during the incident. Considering the skeg and prop damage I think it is completely possible that you did more damage that isn't as obvious.

The hull/keel damage is also more serious than you seem to want to admit. You have completely gone through the gelcoat. The glass has obviously sustained damage. You can fix it right or fix it again. Any "repair" kit you try may give you some more time until the damage starts to either cause other problems or degrades to a point that it no longer protects the structure of the boat. With that kind of damage there is a real issue with water intrusion into the layers of glass and the potential damage that can be caused (freeze). Delamination is also a concern.

I had a little incident at a boat ramp a few weeks back and had a much smaller "scrape" on the keel of my boat. It was probably as deep as yours just much shorter in length. I had it proffessionally repaired for peace of mind.

Do you have insurance on your boat? I made a claim for my incident. If it was worth it for me to make a claim, I'm sure it would be worth it for you. With the skeg, prop and hull damage, you are at 2xBOAT easily. If there is more damage in the outdrive that you can't see 3xBOAT.

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Wow.

I think you are way underestimating the potential damage and the costs to get it fixed. If your bellows came off you may have some serious damage to the bellhousing/gimbal ring. About the only way the bellows would come off is if the drive itself was pull rearward during the incident. Considering the skeg and prop damage I think it is completely possible that you did more damage that isn't as obvious.

The hull/keel damage is also more serious than you seem to want to admit. You have completely gone through the gelcoat. The glass has obviously sustained damage. You can fix it right or fix it again. Any "repair" kit you try may give you some more time until the damage starts to either cause other problems or degrades to a point that it no longer protects the structure of the boat. With that kind of damage there is a real issue with water intrusion into the layers of glass and the potential damage that can be caused (freeze). Delamination is also a concern.

I had a little incident at a boat ramp a few weeks back and had a much smaller "scrape" on the keel of my boat. It was probably as deep as yours just much shorter in length. I had it proffessionally repaired for peace of mind.

Do you have insurance on your boat? I made a claim for my incident. If it was worth it for me to make a claim, I'm sure it would be worth it for you. With the skeg, prop and hull damage, you are at 2xBOAT easily. If there is more damage in the outdrive that you can't see 3xBOAT.

The pictures of the skeg are misleading. It looked as-is when I bought it, except for the small 1/2" chip on the rear part that I added Saturday.

My neighbor used to work at a marine repair shop and did fiberglass repair. He crawled underneath it today and said I had nothing to worry about. A simple patch-job would be fine. So again, maybe the pics make it look worse than it is. I'm not going to just use a stick-on keelguard. I'll get some fiberglass mesh and resin, and sand it down and do it right.

At any rate, I'll be doing a DIY patch and re-prop, spin it in the driveway at idle-speed, and then take it out for a shakedown run to see if there's any more hidden damages. What I need is some advice as to what to look for once things get moving again. Obviously, any vibration or chattering is bad, but beyond that, I don't know what to look/listen for. I'll run the trim up and down in the driveway and listen for any grinding, crunching or clunking. Anything else?

 

[jmarty10]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

"A bellow popped off too???" Not normal at all! That needs to be fixed too or you risk sinking the boat next time you go out. Dude......... you have an insurance claim. You will poop your pants once you find out how much it is to fix the ss prop. If you are going to run your boat in rocks at a minimum get an aluminum prop! The hull, outdrive and engine need to be looked at by a proffesional. Usually when you hit with a SS prop the outdrive goes to.
Good luck!

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

"A bellow popped off too???" Not normal at all! That needs to be fixed too or you risk sinking the boat next time you go out. Dude......... you have an insurance claim. You will poop your pants once you find out how much it is to fix the ss prop. If you are going to run your boat in rocks at a minimum get an aluminum prop! The hull, outdrive and engine need to be looked at by a proffesional. Usually when you hit with a SS prop the outdrive goes to.
Good luck!

No insurance. Will be getting some before next trip out though.
Prop is $150 to repair. Not too bad. I purchased an Al prop to use for the time being and will probably get the SS prop fixed later.

How could the boat take on water through the exh. bellows? Is there a check-valve in the lower-unit that normally prevents backflow when the thru-prop exhaust is working properly?

As for the outdrive... well, we'll see. So far, the prop shaft seems to be straight, and there aren't any nasty grinding sounds coming from it when I turn it. Visual inspection test passes with aplomb. I plan on getting the fiberglass mended this week (bought supplies yesterday) and I have a new prop, so hopefully I'll be able to get it in the water to test it out this weekend.

Another demon popped up yesterday. For some reason the tilt limit switch decided to stop working. I figured it just went bad since the sender unit was shot when I bought the boat. But I took the limit apart and saw that it looked fine. It just got knocked way out of adjustment somehow. I was afraid I was going to have to replace it, but I just had to re-set it. Kind of a PITA, but now I have a trim limit and don't have to worry about breaking the U-joint.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

get liability insurance before you go back out. Your incident explains why.

a depth finder tells you what you are hitting, not what you might hit. Especially in rocky areas--I am generally around slopes, and soft bottoms, which is entirely different. you can have your bow on a rock with the transponder over 10' of water.

ambiguous bouys and similar markers indicate either channels, or hazards, and no telling which is which. Do not rely on them unless you know.

 

[Ki Ki]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Sorry to read about this. I'm always amazed by some of the people in forums that seem to want to make you feel more like crap. Anyways, some here are being very realistic in the expenses, but what I would do is take it to a reputable shop and say 'look, what MUST I do right now to repair it and what can be a 2011 repair'. You'll get a good idea of what's needed versus what COULD be repaired at a later date.

I feel for you. I bought a boat in June and I learned running it on the water is a big difference than ear muffs.

 

[gozierdt]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

On the exhaust bellows, there is a new bellows out now that only attaches to the transom side of the drive, and slips over the lip in the outdrive as the drive comes down into running position. Make sure you don't have one of those before working on replacing it. It doesn't have the corrugations like the regular bellows. You can see it here:

http://www.mercstuff.com/exhaustbellows.htm

If you do have the old style bellows and did pop it off the outdrive leg, then you took a much harder hit than you realize. You'll have to pull the drive to re-attach the bellows, it'd be a good time to double check the outdrive and trim cylinders for damage.

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

get liability insurance before you go back out. Your incident explains why.

a depth finder tells you what you are hitting, not what you might hit. Especially in rocky areas--I am generally around slopes, and soft bottoms, which is entirely different. you can have your bow on a rock with the transponder over 10' of water.

ambiguous bouys and similar markers indicate either channels, or hazards, and no telling which is which. Do not rely on them unless you know.

Now I know.

As I saw it, there was a buoy next to a small island and one next to a point/peninsula, so I assumed that mean shallow/rocks/hazard near them. Went between them as far away from each as possible thinking it would be fine. A third buoy in the middle would have made it obvious that it was not a channel and indeed a hazard the whole way across.

Depth finder was worthless in this scenario. And I even studied the contour/topographical map ahead of time, but it didn't help. The map says it's supposed to be 5' minimum. Little did I know that this particular lake was at a record low.

Seems like everyone I talk to knew that this lake was trouble and to stay off of it. If the lake has been low for several years, then
I would have expected the DNR to invest in a couple more buoys to mark a gravel bar such as the one I hit.

ETA:
looking at the satellite image, it's obvious that there's an obstruction there.
LINK to image
Considering how far apart the visible land is (buoys were within 20 yards of land) it's even more ridiculous that they did not have several more buoys marking the gravel bar.

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

On the exhaust bellows, there is a new bellows out now that only attaches to the transom side of the drive, and slips over the lip in the outdrive as the drive comes down into running position. Make sure you don't have one of those before working on replacing it. It doesn't have the corrugations like the regular bellows. You can see it here:

http://www.mercstuff.com/exhaustbellows.htm

If you do have the old style bellows and did pop it off the outdrive leg, then you took a much harder hit than you realize. You'll have to pull the drive to re-attach the bellows, it'd be a good time to double check the outdrive and trim cylinders for damage.

Mine is definitely the accordion style. I'm starting to think that it didn't come off during the rock-incident. Even if they force of the hit pulled the drive leg backwards against the force of the hydraulic pistons (unlikely) then the farthest they could have extended is to the mechanical stops in the rams, which it the equivalent of having the leg in the full trailer-up position. I'm thinking the bellows was maybe just loose, and turning the steering side to side while in full up may have popped it off.

I've heard of people running with no exhaust bellows, and if I were to switch to the "new style" that is just a tube that seats upon lowering the drive it wouldn't be any different, so I don't see it as an immediate problem to fix.

 

[security6]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

get liability insurance before you go back out. Your incident explains why.

Can you explain your statement a little more? How does hitting rocks explain why someone should have liability insurance?

Not that I disagree. I think everyone should have liability insurance. I'm just not sure that hitting rocks shows the importance of having liability insurance.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Wow Scot. Sorry to hear about the damage. WBL is generally a good lake, but the aquifer there is depleted and the yahoos in charge aren't doing anything about the water loss. From looking at the map, all I can say is that you made a mistake. That entire area is a rock ridge from the island all the way east to the shore. The only way through, even in normal water conditions, is to the west between the channel bouys. Last month our fishing club was on WBL because Bald Eagle was full. I had my trolling motor out and was fishing near the rock ridge when I saw how shallow it was....did a quick about face with my aluminum boat and stayed away.

Now depth finder, GPS, or map is going to help you out in such a situation. Your brain and eyes are going to be the best tools you've got - for better or worse! I boat Lake Vermilion which is a BWCA/Canadian Shield lake filled with rocks. Anywhere under 10ft according to the maps has me off plane and scouting for danger any time I'm in a new area, and I always pay attention to how water levels are doing. A depth finder, GPS, or map will only tell you the ordinary depths, but we all know that Mother Nature pulls the strings here. I guarantee that most times in late summer to fall that water levels will be low 9 out of 10 years on most lakes.

Have your buddy do the fiberglass repairs and get your motor looked at by a repair shop. I don't know as much about inboards but your prop took one heck of a hit and that skeg looks like it needs a guard one way or another. The big problem, as others have mentioned, is that you may have internal damage to your motor. Running it under those conditions could make it worse. Spend the $$ now to make sure or you may compound it with more costs in the future.

If it makes you feel any better, I only got the gear oil 90% full in my new Suzuki last fall and ended up dropping $1200 on a seized lower unit this spring - not long after fishing opener. It happens to all of us. Good luck!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Scot, the reason "they" don't mark many obstructions, especially natural ones, is that once 'they' assume that duty they could be responsible if they miss one, or a marker disappears. Similarly, boaters would come to rely on them, and have a false sense of safety when they see no markers. Finally, a marker is inherently ambiguous: does it mark a 100' long bar or a piling? So it's up to the captain to know the waters.
(I boat on a coastal wilderness; there is a pole with a big sign: DANGER. Some years it's deep and fast currents there; some years it's a submerged sandbar. The sign itself blew off in recent storms, but it will always be called "the danger pole.")

Security: Scot just missed having passengers injured. Imagine mother in law thrown into the top edge of the windshield, taking out all her teeth. A person in the bow area (or worse, on the bow deck) could be thrown off and under, crushed between hull and obstruction. His exposure is especially increased if the injured is a non-family member, one of the children's friends for example. Even short of injury, a collision like that could require salvage, inclusing hazmats, or search and rescue--possibly at the boater's expense.
We think about collision with other boats as the primary exposure to liability, and perhaps a watersports mishap next, but the "single vessel" is as much at risk. Simply coming into the pier and having a child put an arm out can set you up for a big loss. In an instant.

 

[QC]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

I've heard of people running with no exhaust bellows, and if I were to switch to the "new style" that is just a tube that seats upon lowering the drive it wouldn't be any different, so I don't see it as an immediate problem to fix.

I kind of agree except that the drive side of the bellows will probably not align with the exhaust hole when you trim down and could be crimped and cause back pressure. I think I'd rather see that type of bellows removed then run unattached . . .

 

[ScotWithOne_t]

Re: Break Out Another Thousand.

Scot, the reason "they" don't mark many obstructions, especially natural ones, is that once 'they' assume that duty they could be responsible if they miss one, or a marker disappears. Similarly, boaters would come to rely on them, and have a false sense of safety when they see no markers. Finally, a marker is inherently ambiguous: does it mark a 100' long bar or a piling? So it's up to the captain to know the waters.
(I boat on a coastal wilderness; there is a pole with a big sign: DANGER. Some years it's deep and fast currents there; some years it's a submerged sandbar. The sign itself blew off in recent storms, but it will always be called "the danger pole.")

Security: Scot just missed having passengers injured. Imagine mother in law thrown into the top edge of the windshield, taking out all her teeth. A person in the bow area (or worse, on the bow deck) could be thrown off and under, crushed between hull and obstruction. His exposure is especially increased if the injured is a non-family member, one of the children's friends for example. Even short of injury, a collision like that could require salvage, inclusing hazmats, or search and rescue--possibly at the boater's expense.
We think about collision with other boats as the primary exposure to liability, and perhaps a watersports mishap next, but the "single vessel" is as much at risk. Simply coming into the pier and having a child put an arm out can set you up for a big loss. In an instant.

If one can't rely on buoys, signs and other markings, then how is one supposed to know? I'm beyond complaining and feeling sorry for myself about the incident, I just want to make sure I don't do it again. People keep saying that one has to know the water and such, but how?

Regarding insurance, yes... my bad for not having it insured. Kept forgetting to call the agent during business hours all week. Saturday morning I figured, "oh well... we'll just take it easy today. What are the odds of something bad happening?" I guess I should have bought a lottery ticket that morning too.
Anyways, called the agent today and got it fully covered now.