Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

[Mudjive]

*Johnson 60 horse 2 stroke*<br /><br />Hi - I have posted with some questions relating to this. I brought my boat in because the horn would sound after running it for about 2-3 minutes at idle.[long beep/pause/long beep... speeds up with throtle]<br />When I brought it in and they hooked it up, it seemed like the water pump was running fine and it was smoking pretty good the whole time they looked it over [probably like 15 minutes] - the beep started right on queue and he unhooked wires [not sure what] and tried to prime the bulb on the oil tank [it was good and stiff] he thought it was the horn it self malfunctioning but wasnt sure. He told me he needed to test the horn and VRO and would get back to me - Here is what I have done so far:<br />Fuel filter<br />plugs<br />changed oil in tank [did find a sludge in there]<br />new gas<br /><br />What do you think I should do? when I call them today I am sure *all* my options will not be dicussed and they want $700 to put that pump in... I have read here that you can mix gas 50:1 but I am not sure what the long term is on that?<br /><br />Sorry for the length here but I am stuck...

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

If this is the 1993 motor, make sure your mechanic understands the system before proceeding. Its not a VRO pump. The OMS pump operates much the same but there are some differences.<br /><br />What were the results of the pressure and vacuume tests?

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

The thing about this motor is that it had some major trouble about 5 years back and was rebuilt so it has a block that is stickered 1999 but I believe everything else is 1993.<br /><br />They didnt tell me any of the results - I just dont understand when we tested it and I was standing there he didnt think it was the "VRO" based on it was smoking good and the "when you prime the bulb and the beeping didnt stop, it usually does if its the VRO"

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Here is a link to good information on the VRO system and how it is blamed for a lot of things. Perhaps printing it out for your mechanic may or may not change his diagnosis, depending on how well he knows the system.<br /><br /> http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Whats troubling to me is that this is not a VRO system and he has it stuck in his head that it is. It might be a moot point but a good tech will know what hes working on.<br /><br />A new pump is around 300.00. If hes just throwing parts at it, whats the other 400.00 for? And why wont he follow the factory testing proceedure?

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Okay - so this is VERY frusterating, cause my first hunch is that he is just throwing parts at it [$300 part - $400 labor/ gimme a break] but I just dont think it is the pump, I know I am not a expert but everything I have read and being told sounds iffy... I am not going to have them change the pump out - what are some things I can try at home to eliminate/verify it is the pump or something else? what I am wondering is if there was sludge in the bottom of the oil tank - maybe it isnt getting oil right now? what are some tall tale signs that it is failing - wouuld the motor smoke if it was failed?<br /><br />Thanks for all your help fellas.

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

one more thing I cant get out of my crawl is the crap at the bottom of the tank when I drained it - maybe the pump sucked that in and now it thinks its not getting oil, or that crap is still present in the pump? is there an oil filter [OMC P/N 174377] that may be clogged due to this?

 

[DJ]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

maybe the pump sucked that in and now it thinks its not getting oil, or that crap is still present in the pump?

That is a distinct possibility. There is no filter on the system except the "sock" in the tank.

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

DJ - <br />I checked the sock and its not clogged [I dont think] but water/sludge wouldnt show up in there.<br /><br />is there a way to bleed the entire system [OMS/VRO] included? to ensure water is not in there.<br /><br />Will an engine smoke [and smell good] if its not getting oil?<br /><br />Thanks!!!

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Mudjive,<br /><br />While the motor is making the beep/pause thing that speeds up with rpm, disconnect the oil tank wiring at the motor to see if the beeping disappears. Is so, that means the oil pickup assembly has flakey electronics in it. All it does is signal when the tank gets low on oil, that's all. Most folks leave the wiring disconnected and visually check the tank often. That's a lot cheaper than a new $70 pickup assembly.

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Thanks for all the info guys - I got my boat back this weekend and am going to start working on it!! oddly enough I am looking forward to it.

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

I'm unclear - did the mechanic actually tell you that the pump needed to be replaced and it would cost you $700? Or were you predicting that this would happen. <br /><br />I'm interested in what you find out working on your own. Good luck.

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

D,<br />they estimated that it would be $695 [parts/labor] to replace the pump. But I just wasnt convinced that they were positive thats what it was based on what I have read here and what the mechanic told me there "looking at it I dont think its the pump - but I will check it anyway" then next call I get I'm told its the pump. And $700 is an expensive "lets give this a try"

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Originally posted by Mudjive:<br />.... And $700 is an expensive "lets give this a try"

I wouldn't be too confident either unless it was my long time excellent mechanic - I'd do what you're doing. Good luck!

 

[Mybigjohnson]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Originally posted by Mudjive:<br /> D,<br />they estimated that it would be $695 [parts/labor] to replace the pump. But I just wasnt convinced that they were positive thats what it was based on what I have read here and what the mechanic told me there "looking at it I dont think its the pump - but I will check it anyway" then next call I get I'm told its the pump. And $700 is an expensive "lets give this a try"

Mudjive, <br /><br />Can you share with me where you took your motor to in an email? Looking for a good mechanic for my rig. <br /><br />Thanks,

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Well I took it out yesterday and put some oil in the tank to be sure [50:1 - actually a little richer to make sure] and it starts to beep after about 3-5 minutes of idleing. I tried to diconect the wires from the tank and the beeping didnt stop. One thing I noticed is that once I turned the motor off then back on it took like 3-4 minutes before it beeped again?<br /><br />Any way, I think my plan is going to be to purchase a fuel pump and pull out the VRO/OMS and just mix fuel.I am a little nervous what the long term effects of that is though?<br /><br /> But this weekend I am taking it out for a trip and will run it to see if the oil moves on the tank. How much should it move?

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

It's going to drop roughly a pint with 6 gal. of fuel.I don't understand why I have heard no mention of a consumption test on this pump. Either the pump is defective, or the electronic's are. A test of that pump is spelled out in the manual, and is easily done. Has it? One thing I have made to test these pump's is an aluminum base with a 12" vertical staff with a 1/4" sight glass that the oil line plugs into. I can set this in the transom well for hand's off viewing. My wife's dress making tape is now a foot shorter then it used to be

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

The testing procedure is in the owners manual or one I have to buy after market? I dont recall a test to run in the book but I will take another look.<br /><br />is there a place online to get a book comprable to a Chilton or Haynes book for cars?

 

[OBJ]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

Reprints of the OEM manual can be gotten through Ken Cook Co., Maine.com or the outboardwizard...all have sites, just do a search. Get the OEM manual...the generics don't go into the detail you need to do the testing.<br /><br />Gut feeling is the horn module is bad....but gut feelings don't always pan out. Do the tests the guys suggested and make sure.

 

[Mudjive]

Re: Brought motor to service - they say VRO pump but I'm not sure it is

I used my boat a bit this weekend and I can really tell if the oil level moved a whole lot but either way I want to remove the VRO/OMS and just put in a fuel pump and mix [it seems to smoke more when mixing, but I LOVE that smell so cool]<br />Do you guys know where I can get a step by step on the procedure? I have read to just hook it up and disconect a couple wires so it dont alarm any more, yet the over heat will.<br /><br />Are there any long term issues with doing this?