By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

[Sunsetrider]

For those among us who remember those early Readers! I am at the early stages of restoring an unknown model of a mid-60's 15ft Crestliner (welded, set up like a SC Jupiter), so one big job coming up will be a complete re-wiring and some gauges. I read The 12-Volt Bible for Boats - ya ya I do remember Grade 10 science but it was no help in telling what wires go where and stuff like panels and busses. EXACTLY where they go and how to hook them up. (I was lousy in Math as well - English major). Then a pal hooked me up this site and its sister site below:

http://www.boatwiringstore.com/boat-wiring/harness/standard-boat-wiring-harness/

Sister:

http://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-products/boat-wiring-harness/

I will want to set up a tidy wiring system where the basics are properly fused, grounded, and brought to a bus for distribution. For my smallish boat I will want: nav lights up front, stern all-around, bilge pump, horn, 12V receptacle for whatnot, and one extra spot on the bus just for fun.

Problem is I already know so much about everything else (ri-i-i-ght!) there is no room in my brain to figure all this out on a practical plane, so I am hoping you guys can tell me that the stuff on the above sites are what I need to plug-and-play. Like, the first package, doesn't seem to include a bus nor a fused panel, the second might be just a bit too basic? How do folks actually wire these smaller boats up?

I was able to hook up my Sat radio to my car.

My other threads about this vessel:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=565238

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=561919

 

[Silvertip]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

I can tell that you are already wrapped up with the term buss. Not that that's bad, but you need to concentrate on a diagram first. You can start by drawing a battery. Then you have a 20 amp breaker within six inches of the POSITIVE post on that battery. Then from the breaker you have a #8 or #10 RED wire going up to the positive feed on a new fuse panel. From that fuse panel you run individual feeds to the LINE side of a switch that will control whatever you plan for that switch. The LOAD side of the switch goes to the device that switch controls and a proper sized fuse goes into that slot in the fuse panel. The ground side of the device goes back to the ground BUSS (hey there ya go) on the fuse panel. From that spot you run another BLACK #8 or #10 ground wire back to the NEGATIVE terminal of the battery. Each slot on the fuse panel feeds another device. Some need to go through a switch while others (like the radio or perhaps an accessory socket) do not. But why use so many words when there are so many good diagrams you can pluck from this forum if you use the SEARCH feature. Here are just a couple.

1) This is how switches with lights in them are wired.

2) This is how a basic fuse panel WITH a built in ground buss looks.

3) This is how current flows through a circuit (two lights are shown) but they could be any item that needs a simple On/Off switch.

4) This is how Navigation lights are wired to an ON/OFF/ON switch with six terminals.

5) This is how Navigation lights are wired to an ON/OFF/ON switch with three terminals. If you don't know what a diode is or where to get one then use a six terminal switch. Hint: Diodes can be obtained at Radio Shack.

6)This is what a typical electrical system looks like.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Holy cow, what an answer! Esp. helpful because I cannot make real sense of the wiring diagrams unless and until I see a pic of the actual device, be it the fuse, the buss or the switch. Then I can start to visualize what I will have to do to install a system. Based on the info above I will draw myself a diagram as you suggest, then look around for the appropriate parts to make it real. Then measure the routes the various wires will travel, and also try to tie on the engine system with the boat system.

Maybe once i start into it I can stop semi-freaking out? :facepalm:

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

dont bother with making a diagram just mount your parts then using silvertips diagrams just run one wire at a time point to point. its not 40 wires its one wire 40 times. one trick is to use tie wraps but install them backwards so they dont lock then just keep adding one wire at a time undoing and redo the the tie wrap until all the wires are in then install the tie wrap the correct way at the end.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

I need to make the diagram because I can't otherwise keep in my head what parts I need. Like, I have this idea that I want to have some kind of central point up near the helm where I can add stuff without going all the way back to the fuse box at the battery. Still trying to see the big picture so maybe doing the dwgs will help to get me there.

I will continue to feel like a dumbass until I actually do it . . .

 

[Todd4]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

I'm not going to get involved with this (already got involved with designing one for a forum member), but I will give you some good advice. Get your boat battery or 12V transformer from Radio Shack with some FUSED test wire leads (aligator clips on ends) and practice making up some test curcuits on a table with short pieces of wire (just twist the ends). As said before, make only one complete curcuit at a time (exactly how you would wire it in the boat - only shorter) with everything you would use in the boat when wired for real (fuse holder, switch, indicator light, end device you are operating, etc) and see if it works as you planned. They (Jegs or Summit) even sell 'resettable' fuses so you don't blow out dozens of fuses while learning. Anyway, this way you can climb the learning curve and build your confidence while sitting comfortably at the kitchen table in the A/C instead of wasting hours trying to troublsheoot a jumbled up mess under the boat dash in the scorching hot sun. Did I convince you, yet? Good luck with your project, it will be very rewarding in the end.

Todd

EDIT: You can even use a sheet of cardboard and "mount" all your stuff to it (switch, lights, fuse blocks, end device, etc) and 'run' your wires behind the cardboard to parctice a complete install of a curcuit. You can even draw your boat on it to help visualize the layout process.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

So far my diagram looks like a nasty Italian dinner, but at least I am getting the drift . . . . I don't understand why there is a separate circuit breaker between the battery and the fuse panel (#2), nor why there is a fuse between the fuse panel and the switch (#3). Then I need to see how the wires actually go on the boat, how they are typically led back to the ground bus. How many terminals do you find on that bus . . . do all the black wires pile onto one terminal?

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Todd- - - - > (cross-post) that makes a lot of sense. I will do that once I acquire all my "devices." My father used to assemble major appliances from Heathkit, and that;s what he would do, with the cardboard panel. I should have paid more attention . . .

 

[NYBo]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

I don't understand why there is a separate circuit breaker between the battery and the fuse panel (#2), nor why there is a fuse between the fuse panel and the switch (#3).

The purpose of fuses/circuit breakers is to protect the wires, not the attached devices. The breaker near the battery protects the wiring that feeds the fuse block; it needs to be of enough capacity to carry the entire load of the fuse panel (as do the wires, which is why they are 8 or 10 gauge). In the same manner, the fuses in the fuse panel protect the wiring to the individual devices.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

OK, thanks.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Just like your house, you have a great big wire coming INTO the fuse panel with ONE big circuit breaker at the top of the panel. That breaker must be big because it must carry the load that every one of the small breakers is carrying to each of its circuits. Another way to look at this is running water through a garden hose. If you start out at the faucet on the house and use one of those multi-tap deals, you will not get the same volume at each of the hoses because you can't pass four hoses worth of water through one main line the same size as the multiples.

That large circuit breaker is installed within six inches of the battery positive post. You don't need another fuse between the fuse panel and the switch -- that's what the one in the fuse panel is for. So the route is fuse -- switch IN -- switch OUT -- device -- device ground -- battery negative (via the ground buss).

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

I've been doing a bunch of reading on the subject of small boat wiring and the picture is definitely becoming more clear as I look at a variety of wiring options. One thing for sure, I'll be replacing the lamp cord that is currently running through the boat . . . I have to figure out the best way to secure the harness to the aluminum sidewall under the gunwale.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

with out seeing it im not sure this would work but a few pieces of pvc pipe cut 2" long then glued every foot up under the gunwale so you can feed the wires in the pipes seems to work well.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

with out seeing it im not sure this would work but a few pieces of pvc pipe cut 2" long then glued every foot up under the gunwale so you can feed the wires in the pipes seems to work well.

Hmmm . . . I would like to avoid punching holes through the skin with screws or rivets, so that idea is appealing. Have you done that, or seen it done? I wonder what glue would be best for that.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

dont punch holes in the boat... most boats have hoops built in normally of fiberglass but pvc will do just clean it then any 2 part epoxy will stick it as the wiring isnt going to weigh alot its just to keep it up out of the way normally where it can not be seen. if you have a lip that it can be hidden under then glue and hold in place with duct tape while it drys

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Excellent suggestions - thanks. I will look for those sticky things - I have HD, Lowes, and a third big box building supply store all within 3 blocks of each other. And I will definitely use color coded wire.

System question - I would like to place the fuse box up near the helm (with a fuse back by the battery of course). IOW pos and neg big-ish wires ( one each) up to the front, then split off from there with the smaller wires and neg bus. Any issues with that?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Excellent suggestions - thanks. I will look for those sticky things - I have HD, Lowes, and a third big box building supply store all within 3 blocks of each other. And I will definitely use color coded wire.

System question - I would like to place the fuse box up near the helm (with a fuse back by the battery of course). IOW pos and neg big-ish wires ( one each) up to the front, then split off from there with the smaller wires and neg bus. Any issues with that?

Keep it simple. Buy a fuse panel with a built in negative buss as shown in my diagrams. No need for separate one.

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

Right. But no problem putting the panel up front (with the battery at the back) so long as I put a fuse in close to the battery, right?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

That's the way nearly every boat on the planet is done. You don't want battery cables for the engine running all over the boat so that's why the battery is close to the engine. The fuse panel is at the helm because that's where all the switches and most of the accessories are. If you put the fuse panel near the battery every accessory would need wiring running from the front all the way to the stern. What a waste..

 

[Sunsetrider]

Re: By basic, I mean **** Jane Spot

So I'm not inventing this stuff from scratch?:facepalm: This is a good example of the meaning of the title of this thread . . . moving from concept (the diagram) to reality (the fuse panel is not really 1 foot from the battery).