Bypass the stop circuit??

[bob johnson]

My 1995 115 Johnson looper has been acting up since December.. Originally I thought it might be water in the gas, then I thought it might be the gearcase...then after posting here I had thought that it might have been a leaking t-stat housing allowing water to run down onto the spark plug and short...BUT the issue really never left . it was sporatic which made it worse... the motor would buck...like it was missing badly...well the motor finally died on my sunday while fishing for stripers( finally got out after them and then I have this issue) got a friendly tow back...motor cranks hard...but wouldn't start...so I checked and had no spark. Went right to my mechanic, who by the way hates to work on stuff, hes an old codger, but he knows stuff! His son said just replace the power pack( since I have spare parts) he said it might be the big red plug, as they go bad. he said cut out the black/yellow wire and bypass the red plug. well first he said just cut the wire and see if it starts! we talked about all the possible causes and an optical eyes was one. so since he was helping me I wanted to buy something from him and I bought the eye, even though I have a few used ones at home. so with that plan I go home to work on the motor

Sure enough I get home and the motor starts! I DIDNT DO ANYTHING! so now I cant do checks, because every thing is working! so I cut the black /yellow wire and install bullet connector so I can separate the wire if the motor stops again and if that isn't the issue, I can put it back together. I also removed the power pack and coils from my spare motor. I brought all my tools and off I went to the river again. ran good until it started to misfire....it does not shut down, but it missed and bucks at times..sometimes it clears up sometimes it doesn't. but sure enough when I shut the motor off. It wont restart. so I disconnected my black/yellow wire at the new bullet connectors... still would not start. so I pluged them back together and pulled the red plug apart. it looked clean and still had grease from years ago when I put it together.. I plugged them back together and sure enough it started!. so I think it IS IN THE RED plug. this scenario happened about four times, because I stayed on the river, once it restarted , and I used the "unplug and plug, the red plug trick".

now on the motor side of the red plug the wires are exposed , but on the control side all the wires are inside a nice tight solid wire sheathing!! before I cut the sheathing to try and pull out the black/yellow wire, do I have any other potions???

bob

 

[jakedaawg]

The metal prongs on the male side of the red connector have a seam. You can try a pointed tool to spread the a little wider so they make a better connection.

 

[bob johnson]

The metal prongs on the male side of the red connector have a seam. You can try a pointed tool to spread the a little wider so they make a better connection.

I DID JUST THAT!!! before I went back out.,...think it would force more contact into the female prong.... didn't seem to work.

bob

 

[oldboat1]

Hey Bob -- think I would try cleaning out the plug with a good dose of electrical cleaner (spray -- CRC stuff is good) -- hit both the male and female ends.

 

[bob johnson]

Hey Bob -- think I would try cleaning out the plug with a good dose of electrical cleaner (spray -- CRC stuff is good) -- hit both the male and female ends.

I should take a picture of them...doesn't look like any corrosion....they were still all covered with grease!!!!..

is there any other connection in that plug that could stop my motor from starting......but it NEVER KILLED the motor while under power...it just missed like crazy.....if it was the black/yellow wire..."stop circuit"...then it was so fast on -off.....seems like if it made a connection for a solid second or more...the motor would have shut off under power...it felt like two spark plugs were not firing sporatically......

hmmmm

bob

 

[oldboat1]

the grease -- think you need to clean off the grease. Electrical cleaner should cut through it.

 

[Fed]

Is it not cranking or not starting?

 

[bob johnson]

Is it not cranking or not starting?

it cranks fine....just no spark is generated..... I have a spark tester, and you know the sound of a turning motor that is trying to fire is much different than a motor that is JUST turning over!! so I checked with my spark tester out on the water....sure enough NO SPARK.....but the motor cranks fine


bob

 

[bob johnson]

the grease -- think you need to clean off the grease. Electrical cleaner should cut through it.

really, you think the grease is a possible cause? I think I put the grease on when I first installed the motor maybe 7 years ago....

bob

 

[WernerF]

...so I cut the black /yellow wire and install bullet connector so I can separate the wire if the motor stops again and if that isn't the issue, I can put it back together...

Did you cut the black/yellow wire on the motor side of the red plug or on the control side?

 

[oldboat1]

think there is probably some disagreement on using grease on electrical components: http://www.w8ji.com/dielectric_grease_vs_conductive_grease.htm

I have the best success when able to keep connections clean and dry -- think electrical spray helps with that, but admit it might be a feel good thing.

 

[bob johnson]

Did you cut the black/yellow wire on the motor side of the red plug or on the control side?

I cut the black/yellow wire between the red plug and the power pack...but since at that time the motor was starting... I installed bullet connectors to each end and connected them....... then later out on the water when the motor again decided NOT to start....I pulled the cover and disconnected those bullet connectors.......and then tried to start the motor, but the motor still didn't start....

strange....

I RECONNECTED the bullet connectors on the black/yellow wire and then pulled the red plug apart...looked at it and then reconnected the red plug... then the motor started on the next try!!!...

later on... when the motor would not start again...all I did was pull the red plug connection apart and replug it back together...and the motor started....

one time I didn't start and I repeated the procedure...and then the motor started....


is that telling me it is NOT the stop circuit????

It makes me think it is another connector in the red plug!!

what other wire could cause a no start issue all by itself??


bob

 

[WernerF]

There are only two wires left in the red plug that have connection to the powerpack, tan for SLOW and yellow/red for Quickstart trigger. I can't imagine that the powerpack refuses to work with any input on the two leads. But I don't know what happens with intermediate voltage levels on them.

When you disconnect the read plug, does it pull on any of the other cables, e. g. the stator or timer base?

 

[bob johnson]

There are only two wires left in the red plug that have connection to the powerpack, tan for SLOW and yellow/red for Quickstart trigger. I can't imagine that the powerpack refuses to work with any input on the two leads. But I don't know what happens with intermediate voltage levels on them.

When you disconnect the read plug, does it pull on any of the other cables, e. g. the stator or timer base?

that's a thought I am having... at first I had thought I JUST WIGGLED the harness.. and that's what allowed the start!!...then I seemed to think I norrowed it down to the red plug...mainly because the mechanic said they go bad all the time!!!.....but it certainly could be a wire to another part!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a used rectifier/regulator on the motor now...I pulled it off a spare motor I have, But mice had eaten away a lot of the wire coatings...so I used liquid tape to cover them....plus I spliced a connector onto the wires, because one rectifier was post 96 motors and the other was pre 95 motors...so the connectors were different....soooo I could have a bad connection there.....but the motor can start with or without a rectifier...so I don't think that is my current issue

 

[w2much]

I had a similar issue with my 1995 150HP . It was my power pack slowly dying. Started as a high speed miss then graduated to a stall. May be your issue as your engine has started then not. As the powerpack heats up it shorts. You may chase the red plug and in that time the powerpack has cooled down enough to start up get you going and drive ya nuts. Not a pro here but you may need to look at cdi power pack testing. Of course as stated above check all of your wires for chaffing ect. Ya can even start your motor if you can then unplug the red plug and run it. Just be careful as you will lose the ability to shut her down with the key.

 

[bob johnson]

I had a similar issue with my 1995 150HP . It was my power pack slowly dying. Started as a high speed miss then graduated to a stall. May be your issue as your engine has started then not. As the powerpack heats up it shorts. You may chase the red plug and in that time the powerpack has cooled down enough to start up get you going and drive ya nuts. Not a pro here but you may need to look at cdi power pack testing. Of course as stated above check all of your wires for chaffing ect. Ya can even start your motor if you can then unplug the red plug and run it. Just be careful as you will lose the ability to shut her down with the key.

that's why I removed the spare power pack from my parts motor and keep it in the boat!!!.. along with the coils and plug wires.... and a spare optical eye!

 

[bob johnson]

I had a similar issue with my 1995 150HP . It was my power pack slowly dying. Started as a high speed miss then graduated to a stall. May be your issue as your engine has started then not. As the powerpack heats up it shorts. You may chase the red plug and in that time the powerpack has cooled down enough to start up get you going and drive ya nuts. Not a pro here but you may need to look at cdi power pack testing. Of course as stated above check all of your wires for chaffing ect. Ya can even start your motor if you can then unplug the red plug and run it. Just be careful as you will lose the ability to shut her down with the key.

BUT thinking back, this cant be my issue...because I shut my motor off and fished for 20 minutes, and when I went to restart....it just cranked.... so the power pack is cold by then..... if my miss presents itself.... the motor does not die!!.....but if I turn the motor off.... then it wont restart!!.... I have realized that now...... that's why the last time out, I ran back closer to the ramp before I shut the motor off....just in case I had to paddle!!!........and sure enough the motor would not restart!.

but I unplugged the red plug and then plugged it back together and it restarted....it certainly still could be a shorting wire, or the connection inside the plug

bob

 

[Faztbullet]

Change the eye.....

 

[bob johnson]

Change the eye.....

I bought a new eye when I was at the mechanics, but have not installed it.

if I do...is there any ADJUSTMENT that needs to be made to "set" the ey.

or is it just an Remove and replace thing?

bob

 

[bob johnson]

UPDATE:....took the boat out this sat with extra parts on the boat. ran fine till what I am guessing , is that it warmed up..and then the miss showed itself. sure enough, when I turned the motor off, it would not start. I tried the "pull the red plug apart" scenario...didn't work this time. so We just fished for about 20 minutes then I tried again,it started up! later on the miss showed up again.. and I knew when I shut it down, it would not start, so I drove to a local ramp and pulled up next to it and turned the motor off and let my GF go buy some bait a short walk away. of course I tried the motor and it wouldn't start, so I figured I had enough time to replace some parts. the eye looked like a little more work, so I just replaced the power pack and coils ( removed from another motor as a set previously) took only 5 minutes!! and the motor fired right up! I ran the boat for about a 5 mile run and back...running up to 5900 rpms , she ran strong with zero misses.

so it looks like the issue was a bad power pack( ill save my removed coils just in case) and I still have a new eye for future installation if needed.

thanks for all the advice. we all know electrical bugs can be tricky to trouble shoot, especially intermittent ones!


bob