Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

[BoogieMan]

I wasn't born yesterday. This question came up on another thread about a cracked manifold and if it can be fixed or should it be replaced. In a simple reply I stated that they can be repaired depending on how big the crack is. Then the debate started arising from that point on. I'm not trying to steer anybody wrong by any means. If somebody has the money to buy new manifolds so be it. I just want your thoughts and or experience on the subject. I know that most likely there was a reason for the manifold to crack. But the question is can a cracked manifold be repaired?

I don't know what part of the country doesn't repair manifolds but the part of the country I live in and the welders that we have here have the knowledge to repair a "cracked" not busted manifold.

So instead of digging up the thread in which somebody replied to my post saying that a crack in the manifold can not be repaired......I just thought I would start a new thread. I know that depending on the type of manifold (what engine the manifold is going onto) they can be pretty expensive. I also know depending on the welding shop that the cost can be high for a repair, but not everybody takes there items in need of repair to a welding shop because some people have the knowledge and know how to weld, like me for example (but I'm no expert, I'll tell you that right up front).

 

[JB]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Lots of things are called manifolds.

Some, I think, can be repaired and last; some can be temporarily repaired but will fail again soon; and some cannot be repaired so that they fit, meaning that they cannot be repaired.

I do not think a cast iron exhaust manifold can be successfully repaired, even temporarily.

 

[tommays]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

The cost of a correct repair on cast iron will generally exceed the cost of a NEW part


I weld in a Pharmaceutical plant for a living as well as braze and silver braze and build my OWN brand of bicycle frame

I have learned things the hard way like you cant work with frame material in the winter unless you have a really warm temp controlled room one draft of winter and it is ping and 250 dollars worth of tubing go in the trash


A proper repair require would require a long preheat as well as a controlled cool down


Tommays

 

[Arima90]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

The answer is yes, however, most small pleasure boat manifolds are relatively inexpensive and your better off to replace. In the past we ran 60'-110' tenders all over Southeast, AK and we would do whatever we could, be it weld, J-B Weld, Marine Tex, hose clamps, or ?? to fix it until we were back to port and could ship parts in. Sometimes parts could take months especially if they were for some ancient diesel installed 40+ years prior.

 

[BoogieMan]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

The answer is yes, however, most small pleasure boat manifolds are relatively inexpensive and your better off to replace. Sometimes parts could take months especially if they were for some ancient diesel installed 40+ years prior.

I was going to mention something about older motors and how hard it can be to get parts. There is a wealth of information on the internet on repairing manifolds made of different metals. I was just reading about a cast iron repair that has been done on an old tractor. I've been studying this off and on ever sense that last thread that I mentioned earlier.

Tommays....that bicycle looks great. Why can't I get into doing something like that . I would go into that type of (side) business and not sell the first bike lol. I've had ideas on things to build with a welder (stick or wire welder that is). My next project is going to be building a boat trailer into a utility trailer.

 

[achris]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

I have just had a situation where a customer had a crack in a cast iron engine block. My recommendation was to replace it. CMA! As that was prohibitively expensive he suggested that I try 'stitch' welding, with a MIG, keeping the material temperature to a bare minimum. A few millimetres at a time and let it cool. Again I CMA and told him that I would try that but I couldn't guarantee success and recommended that he replace the block. He asked me to at least try it and he was aware that the repair was not guaranteed. So I ground out the crack and welded it up as he suggested. Worked well. Good and strong and looks like a good repair. I finish ground the weld crown, painted it and it looks fine.

Chris...........
P.S. He found the info on the 'net!

 

[i386]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Obviously you guys haven't seen the commercial for Mighty Putty.

 

[BoogieMan]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Obviously you guys haven't seen the commercial for Mighty Putty.

I actually seen that commercial for the first time sense they were talking about that on another thread. That man on the commercial is louder then ever isn't he? Funny you should say that I386......Here my father although he believes in welding a cracked manifolds.....he had said "I wonder what that putty would do on a cracked manifold", when we were discussing the subject.

Achris, that is just one of the type of repairs I had in mind. Any of those repairs are possible, it may last long term or not but possible.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Obviously you guys haven't seen the commercial for Mighty Putty.

Or Red Green.

 

[External Combustion]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Any manifold can be repaired. Grey cast iron is one of the more difficult materials to work with, especially if it is old, has a bunch of inclusions in it and was poorly designed for vibration, heat stress or fastener torque, but even it can be done.

I'm not speaking out of ignorance as I have done many myself. I like to play with antiques where replacement parts are not available and I have made custom modifications to experimental models for a local marine engine manufacturer. Preheat, the proper rod and postheat is the key, whether stainless steel, cast iron or other material is used.


With a good welder and clamping the parts well, frequently you can get by without machining afterwards. You can generally find the welders that do this by attending old tractor and machinery shows.

I was once told "If God didn't make it a machinist did, anything that was made by man can be remade". It seem to be mostly true, but I have to add "You may not be able to afford it." The prices around this part of the country generally indicate a replacement manifold if it is under $150 for simple breaks, $60 for cracks, $250 for semi complicated breaks. Extensive rebuilds that require many hollow passages plus the ordinary gas flow can get past $600.

I am working with a friend on rebuilding a Caterpillar model 30 intake manifold right now. He has one of the most complete collection of parts for it that we have found. After repairing it we want to change the design internally to make it more robust and keep the exterior looking original. There are quite a few Cat owners that are looking for such. I keep telling myself "it is only money!"

 

[Bondo]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Ayuh,......

While I have welded,+ rebuilt abunch of Cast Iron parts,....
As noted,... Heat,+ Control of the Heat is Critical.....
As well as your choice of filler metals.....
High Nickle content rods are my 1st choice,......
Bronze is Good for some things, but Not exhaust manifolds such as non Marine, Not water cooled manifolds that run at temps where the braze is Softening...
And the Problem with water cooled manifolds is you Can't repair them on the Inside where it Counts....

As for Engie Blocks cracked from Freezing,..... It depends on Where it broke.....
If it's down low in the water jacket,..... I'll Epoxy it,... Much Easier,+ Just as Reliable.....
If it broke up high by the Deck,.... It's Junk, because the Deck will be distorted,+ the head will never seal properly.....

 

[Pimp Daddy]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

I'll be able to tell you in the spring! Took my boat out of the water, didn't get the winterization right away. Then I hurt my back at work so the boat was the last thing on my mind. So it looks like a cracked exhaust manifold, and a frost plug pushed out. I'm hopin for the best. There is a professional welder in Sault Ste. Marie that has been highly recommended. He's gonna help me out when when I get the boat out in the spring. Keepin my fingers crossed.

 

[Hoss the Hermit]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Lots of things are called manifolds.

Some, I think, can be repaired and last; some can be temporarily repaired but will fail again soon; and some cannot be repaired so that they fit, meaning that they cannot be repaired.

I do not think a cast iron exhaust manifold can be successfully repaired, even temporarily.

Well, I had one done by a neighbor, lasted 7 years, til I blew the engine in a mud run

 

[Caveman Charlie]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Yes, you can repair manifolds. Even cast ones. There are people that can weld them up. I thought you had to heat it in a forge and then weld it but, I see people here suggesting doing it in a different way. So, there is probley more then one way. I have seen welded engine blocks too. But, With labor rates what they are now it is most often best to throw it away and get a new one. But, if they don't make a new one welding would be your only option. All depends on the price of replacement and how bad/expensive to repair the crack I suppose.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Or Red Green.

I have'nt seen that color duct tape around these parts.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

The manifold on my '52 Ferguson tractor (which I belive is cast) has been welded in two places to repair cracks. Seems to be holding, although we are talking only 28 hp and a 6:1 compression ratio. You can see it's pitted pretty good near the rear. The repair is between the manifold and block back there.
I expect to have a few cracks in my manifold myself by the time I'm her age...

 

[BoogieMan]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

Good input . I'm surprised to see this thread back . Hopefully that tractor and manifold will last you for years more Scoutabout.

Pimp Daddy, I hope the repair works out for you, when ever you have it done.

 

[Caveman Charlie]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

The manifold on my '52 Ferguson tractor (which I belive is cast) has been welded in two places to repair cracks. Seems to be holding, although we are talking only 28 hp and a 6:1 compression ratio. You can see it's pitted pretty good near the rear. The repair is between the manifold and block back there.
I expect to have a few cracks in my manifold myself by the time I'm her age...

I see you added a newer GM alternator. What is that belt driveing it?

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

I see you added a newer GM alternator. What is that belt driveing it?

Yeah -- it's a debate that rages on in old tractor circles -- what's better, keeping your 6 or 12 volt authentic, positive ground generator or switch to an automotive 12 volt neg ground alternator setup.

Purists will insist a well-tuned, happy 6 volt tractor will start on half a spin every time. This is true. However it's also true most of these beasts have lived a half century plus hard time outside, neglected, engines and trannies full of non-detergent, single-weight oil and associated sludge gummin stuff up and a big blue 12 volt zap just helps wake em up. I try to take care of this one but since it was changed before I got it I've just left it the way it is. Also, I like being able to jump it or use it to jump other 12 volt stuff without worrying about bypassing the ignition, etc, etc.

Anyway - to finally get around to your question, the belt is just a big ol v design running around the fan/water pump up top and the crank down below.

Course if need be I can always stick a handle through a hole under the rad and start her the way God intended.

Here she is earning her keep after that big pre-Christmas snowfall.

 

[Caveman Charlie]

Re: Can a cracked manifold be repaired?

We have a 1942 Allis Chalmers WD tractor on the farm. It was my grandfathers and dads first tractor. We put a belly mower under it and we now use it to mow grass. We put a 12 volt battery in it too. It spins it over so much faster and easier. We never did hook up a 12 volt alternator. We just unhooked the charging wires and use the 6 volt alternator as a belt tightener. You can start it about 20 times on the battery alone without ever charging it. It has a magneto so there is no current draw for the spark. Then we just put the charger on it for a day.