Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

[tomoco]

I have a 1972 Johnson 65 horse outboard. It is been running extremely well since I put three new carbs on it a few years ago.

Normally it starts instantly. And smokes a but too much until it gets warmed up.
The other day, and tried to start the motor. It wouldn't turn over. I tried again and again. I suspected the neutral safety switch so as I was turning the key I wiggled the shift lever all around, but it had no effect. As soon as I accidentally pushed the key in, activating the choke, it started turning over and started very quickly and ran fine. After this it turned over normally for a while, but later on did the same thing again, I pushed the choke in quickly while turning the key and it started.

Originally, this motor had a separate choke switch for right near the ignition switch. I replaced the worn-out ignition switch many years ago with one where you push the key in to activate the choke.
Of course this sounds crazy. I'm not aware of any link between the neutral safety switch and the choke.
Ideas anyone?

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Of course this sounds crazy. I'm not aware of any link between the neutral safety switch and the choke.

That's a correct statement. Totally separate, except for the one common point - your ignition switch

Ideas anyone?

I can't tell for sure without being able to lay my multimeter leads on it, but I'd be willing to bet your ignition switch is going bad.

 

[boobie]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Agree +1.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

The neutral saftey switch on my engine ( exactly the same as yours) was giving me intermittant problems this spring. I found the spring on the spark advance lever wasn't engauging the safety switch properly. The switch can be manually overridden by having someone hold it in with a screwdriver.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Good point! I've got a few meters I may go out there tomoro and do some metering!!
And also look for some wires out of place. Maybe I should see if I can connect the original Choke switch.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I don't understand. The neutral safety switch is in the Remote Control box. And the spark advance lever is in the engine, right?
But I'll have a look.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I don't understand. The neutral safety switch is in the Remote Control box. And the spark advance lever is in the engine, right?
But I'll have a look.

There's a neutral safety switch on the spark advance lever of my 1972 Johnson 65hp 65ESL72S and it looks 100% factory to me. The spring on the lever wasn't properly engaging the switch causing an intermittant no start problem exactly like you're describing. Pressing in the switch with a screwdriver solved the problem. Adjusting the spring fixed it.

I cannot attest to your choke question as my control box has a toggle switch not a push in switch.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I see from the manual, there are two switches. A "safety switch" the one on the spark advance lever, and a "neutral start switch" in the remote control. According to the Manual the "neutral start switch" activates an electric toggle switch when the control lever is moved from Neutral to either Forward or Reverse positions. In the neutral position the two white leads from the toggle switch complete the starting circuit. If the switch is in forward or reverse the starting circuit is open.

I am unclear on the function of the "safety switch" on the spark advance lever. And I still wonder how my choke switch affected it.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I see from the manual, there are two switches. A "safety switch" the one on the spark advance lever, and a "neutral start switch" in the remote control. According to the Manual the "neutral start switch" activates an electric toggle switch when the control lever is moved from Neutral to either Forward or Reverse positions. In the neutral position the two white leads from the toggle switch complete the starting circuit. If the switch is in forward or reverse the starting circuit is open.

I am unclear on the function of the "safety switch" on the spark advance lever. And I still wonder how my choke switch affected it.

Possibly redundancy in the event the switch in the control box fails. Just a shot in the dark there.

As far as the choke playing a role, well, get the multimeter out for that one!

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Have you checked the voltage on the starter solenoid with the key turned to the start position?
If you have no voltage in the start position, push in on the key to the choke posioion, if you have voltage then, you have a bad ignition switch.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Well, Guess What, guys?
I went out to the lake yesterday & had as good look. there is no Safety Switch on the spark advance lever.
I took apart the remote. inside there is a Neutral Switch that appears to be in good order.
I replaced both the Neutral Switch and the Ignition Switch some ????? years ago. The Ignition Switch went in easily. But to replace the Neutral Switch I had to cut all the wires to the old one and connect to the new one with those squeeze connectors. Maybe I should re do all those connections?
What else is there but the Ignition Switch?
I removed it, and checked it over. Seems OK. I might replace it anyhow.

I see from the manual, there are two switches. A "safety switch" the one on the spark advance lever, and a "neutral start switch" in the remote control. According to the Manual the "neutral start switch" activates an electric toggle switch when the control lever is moved from Neutral to either Forward or Reverse positions. In the neutral position the two white leads from the toggle switch complete the starting circuit. If the switch is in forward or reverse the starting circuit is open.

I am unclear on the function of the "safety switch" on the spark advance lever. And I still wonder how my choke switch affected it.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Have you actually checked the electrical system with a volt meter or test light to see where you are loosing voltage?

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

But to replace the Neutral Switch I had to cut all the wires to the old one and connect to the new one with those squeeze connectors.

Those are not good, especially for boats. The best bet would be to use waterproof butt splices and connectors. Second best would be standard strain relief type butt splices and connectors and waterproof them as you go. Those squeeze type connectors are prone to all kind of problems caused by humidity and vibration.

Maybe I should re do all those connections?

That would definitely be a good idea.

What else is there but the Ignition Switch?

It's a very simple system. You've got +12 V at the ignition switch, when you turn the key a contact closes that puts voltage on the wire that goes to the neutral safety switch, then to the solenoid. A poor connection on the wire bringing voltage forward from the engine to the ignition switch, a poor connection from the ignition switch back through the neutral safety switch and to the solenoid, or a poor ground at the solenoid will cause your problem. Likewise a bad ignition switch or neutral safety switch could cause this.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I dont speak that language.
But how about if I SOLDER the little buggers, coat with Liquid Elect Tape, and add Heat Shrink tubing???

Those are not good, especially for boats. The best bet would be to use waterproof butt splices and connectors. Second best would be standard strain relief type butt splices and connectors and waterproof them as you go. Those squeeze type connectors are prone to all kind of problems caused by humidity and vibration.





That would definitely be a good idea.





It's a very simple system. You've got +12 V at the ignition switch, when you turn the key a contact closes that puts voltage on the wire that goes to the neutral safety switch, then to the solenoid. A poor connection on the wire bringing voltage forward from the engine to the ignition switch, a poor connection from the ignition switch back through the neutral safety switch and to the solenoid, or a poor ground at the solenoid will cause your problem. Likewise a bad ignition switch or neutral safety switch could cause this.

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Well, guys. I put in a New ignition switch. Re did all 5 splices to the NSS. I didnt solder. I found Waterproof Butt Splices as someone suggested. And it worked! For a few minutes. Then erratic again. I played with it for a few minutes, and realized that the slightest touch of the NSS while in Neutral caused it to mess up. So I removed it. Cutting through my five beautiful Butt Splices! An ohmmeter showed it horribly confused while in Neutral.
Problem is I cant find one online. They all say it is unavailable. 65ESL72. Suggestions?
I may have to try to rebuild this one.

 

[Daviet]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

I have seen them on e-bay, sometimes you can buy a complete control box cheaper than just the switch. Just make sure you are getting the correct switch.
If all else fails, you're not going to like the price, double check the part number, that's the one I came up with by your model number.
http://www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_search.php?part_num=385253&x=17&y=7

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Youre right about not liking the price! I saw some listed at prices like that, but (fortunately) none were in stock.
I managed to get the old one apart by drilling out the studs. It was filthy inside. It appeared to be sealed all around with Silicone (?). But it was just an appearance. The terminals look OK, just dirty. I think I can get it together and seal it better than before. We'll see!

 

[tomoco]

Re: Can choke affect neutral safety switch?

Well, guys, I replaced the Ignition switch and the Neutral Start Stitch in the RC. It seems to work fine now
The NSS was all filled with Krap, and not designed to be taken apart. But I did it all right.
Thanks again for all your help.
Now off to the Steering Box section!