Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

[rfdfirecaptain]

I started a thread to find a credible and successful conversion from Gasoline to LNG or LPG in a pleasure craft. Questions and opinions arose about electrical propulsion for pleasure craft. So, I decided to start this thread to look into the feasibility of that idea.

We all know electrical motors are very powerful and can be engineered to run at variable speeds regardless of the load. In today?s world some electrical motors are designed to be intrinsically safe, water resistant and even corrosion resistant. If you look at the technology used by the rail industry and a train?s fuel efficiency (considering the load it is hauling) there is a question that?s begging to be asked. Why can?t engineers put this technology into pleasure craft boats at an affordable price?

So for all those who are experts on this subject let?s beat this one to death and just maybe an engineer snooping around this site will pick up on this thread and any ideas you have to make this a reality.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

I started a thread to find a credible and successful conversion from Gasoline to LNG or LPG in a pleasure craft. Questions and opinions arose about electrical propulsion for pleasure craft. So, I decided to start this thread to look into the feasibility of that idea.

We all know electrical motors are very powerful and can be engineered to run at variable speeds regardless of the load. In today?s world some electrical motors are designed to be intrinsically safe, water resistant and even corrosion resistant. If you look at the technology used by the rail industry and a train?s fuel efficiency (considering the load it is hauling) there is a question that?s begging to be asked. Why can?t engineers put this technology into pleasure craft boats at an affordable price?

So for all those who are experts on this subject let?s beat this one to death and just maybe an engineer snooping around this site will pick up on this thread and any ideas you have to make this a reality.

Ayuh,... Just as in yer other thread,...

Fuel storage is the Major Issue to get beyond gasoline or diesel fuel....

Converting energy, consumes energy... The gains are lost as waste....

 

[rfdfirecaptain]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Fuel storage is the Major Issue to get beyond gasoline or diesel fuel....

Why would that be an issue with an electrical motor driven propulsion system? I don't follow you.

 

[sje0123]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Why would that be an issue with an electrical motor driven propulsion system? I don't follow you.

You'd need an enormous battery bank. Batteries are heavy. More weight = Need for more power.

In a boat you don't have a braking system as in some electric cars to help recharge the batteries.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Unless you have a generator onboard, where will you "refuel"? Charging takes significant time vs dino juice tank filling. And if an IC genset is used, where is the advantage? Some ideas exceed the limits of practicality. To best of my knowledge electric cars aren't exactly flying out of the showroom either. Leaf and Volt sales in October were about 1750 units, at a time of increased car sales. If Nissan and GM can't sell electric cars why should Merc and Volvo try to sell electric I/Os?

 

[QC]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Fuel storage = battery . . . you need to define what you mean. Conventional internal combustion engine driving a generator that powers an electric motor? The simple question is why? Battery? The simple question is why?

Sarcasm not really intended, but it is almost that simple . . . What are the motives for this? Not rhetorical at all. Seriously. Why? That will determine the options.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

There have been significant improvements in battery technology such as Lithium Ion, Lithium Polymer, A123, and a great deal of power can be packed into a relatively small package but at a very high price. In the low quantities we see in the boating industry battery power would be extremely expensive. But recharging is still the issue so you trade gasoline for electricity, but electricity must be generated at a power plant that consumes fossil fuels. Some batteries are dangerous (Lithium polymer for example). If you have not seen a LiPo battery explode and burn you need to. People have died as their house burned down, and I have seen a LiPo that was so hot 15 minutes after it burst into blame that it needed to be handled with a shovel. Just what I want on board my boat. Hybrids (train engine driving a generator driving a motor) is done out of necessity. Ever seen an automatic transmission that can handle that power? How about a standard transmission where the engineer would need to shift gears??? Fact is electric power in anything but a very small boat is impractical and has limited application much like our all electric cars. In some applications, they are great. For general, all around motoring not so much..

 

[sje0123]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Forget the batteries... Go Nuclear.

 

[minuteman62-64]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

From another thread on the same topic: The main reason for it is effiency. An engine has a most efficent speed range and running outside that range uses too much fuel. It's easier to have the engine set to run at best speed and then control the load on an electric motor. Most really big diesels don't like being throttled up and down. What Mike said about the subs is right too.Chris........Edit: You beat me to it SS.

It it intriguing to think about if the right package of gas or diesel (or fuel cell??) engine and generator could be developed to propell a small craft with an electric motor. You'd get the efficiency, lose the shifting mechanism, be able to locate the gas/diesel motor anywhere based on best weight distribution and be able to have closed circuit cooling.

 

[dennis461]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Sure it can,
but like cars, it will cost more.

Replace the big gas or diesel engine with a battery bank of same weight.
Replace the outdrive with a POD mounted electric motor, should save some more weight.
Gone are those lousy bellows.
Put a small air cooled engine/generator package on board for re-charging in emergencies.

One advantage over cars, you won't waste energy on heating during winter.

I've got a 16' open boat to donate for the project...

 

[wagnerz]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Could you imagine how quiet your boat would be without an internal combustion engine? An electric powerboat is probably at least 20-25 years away. By the time an electric powerboat comes along, the iboat forums will probably no longer exist.

 

[wagnerz]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Actually, taking a further look it might be a little closer then I thought. The batteries in the Chevy Volt only weigh 430lbs. I am not sure how much the motor and gas in an 18 foot boat weigh? After the batteries you would still need an electric motor, and I am not sure how much that would weigh. Of course the Volt only has a range of 30 miles, so converting it to a 18 foot boat, you would probably get 4-5 miles? But from reading this forum, a lot of these older boats already have all that extra weight in the wood anyways.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

The Volts Lithium batteries caught fire a wek AFTER a slight accident. Not good folks. Lift a car battery & run a electric trolling motor as far as possible.

Use the same weight of gasoline to run a gas powered boat.

Who went farther. Seen any recharging stations at a marina ?

Carbon fuels for a LONG time.

 

[YZ165]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

There are a bunch of video's on YouTube about electric boat conversions/Builds....one guy even got up to 7 knots......uh.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udBoNSPZYBo

 

[QC]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

From another thread on the same topic: The main reason for it is effiency. An engine has a most efficent speed range and running outside that range uses too much fuel. It's easier to have the engine set to run at best speed and then control the load on an electric motor. Most really big diesels don't like being throttled up and down. What Mike said about the subs is right too.

That's not really accurate. Fixed load maybe, fixed speed, not so much, and diesel not really true with either.

Generating electricity with an internal combustion engine (ICE) to propel something costs fuel. There is no efficiency benefit. The only reason that "Hybrids" are efficient is that they capture wasted energy during braking. No sustained or often repeated event like that in Marine. This is dumb from a fuel standpont. Stupid. Soooo, again, I ask why? If the reason is emission, then OK, it's a cost issue. If the reason is noise, then OK, it's a cost issue. If the reason is weight, forget it. If the reason is balancing loads, OBs are fast with everything hanging on the stern because that's good. Maybe I am missing some other possible benefit, but it is certainly not efficiency or fuel or weight.

BTW, it works at low power levels like a golf cart well. Duffy.

 

[fucawi]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

you should be on www.boatdesign.net for this topic

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

There actually is a little outboard "motor" that might be suitable for a small boat that is available.....

http://www.aquawatt.at/en/


It's rated at 13KW (13kw /0.746 = approx 17hp) Great for your little skiff!

Or, if you want a little more HP for "racing" then you'll want the 22KW "motor" (approx 30HP)

But to get that "HP" you'll need to use the 80v Li batteries.

The "30" is only about 8200 EUR.... dirt cheap (batteries NOT included though)

They didn't say how much the 30hp model weighs but the 18 hp model weighs 57kg (125lbs) maybe the "30" only weighs about 25lbs more making it around 150lbs.

The brochure also indicated that you'd want the 80v Li batteries. You'd probably want the highest capacity so the 160 Amp-Hr battery would be the one. It only weighs 150kg (330lbs)


So, for your electric boat you'll have a 30hp engine and associated battery that weighs in at around 480lbs!!





The engine is only 8200 euros and the batteries are a scant 7900 euros. for a grand total of 16100! (not including VAT or sales tax!!)

At today's conversion rate, I got $21,700 USD

So lets see.... For $21,700 you get a 480lb 30hp boat motor !

I think I'll wait for a better conversion rate.....Maybe the EURO will go down against the dollar!!


Then I can have a "green" boat!!





The website also indicated there's a twin "engine" boat that has 2 25kw motors. (about 35hp each) and it will top out at a WHOPPING 20 knots!!

It will operate for 8hrs (but only if you "cruise" at 6 knots)

http://www.aquawatt.at/fotoalbum-english/848/848_01.php

The boat is beautiful!


They don't indicate the price. (I guess if you have to ask......you cannot afford it!!........(At $25K per engine/battery combo it's no surprise)



I can hardly wait!

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

Im thinking a beer powered boat, no wait what am i thinking. Forget that idea.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

30 cases of beer will keep the rowers going all day !

 

[dwco5051]

Re: Can Electric Marine Propulsion Be A Reality (in pleasure craft)?

How about using wind energy to propell a boat. Maybe a big stick up in the air with cloth on it to capture the wind. Fasten some sort of cloth to it to make it more efficeint. No fuel, no batteries, no noise.

Come to think of it it has already been done.