Cap in, deck out?

[CobyAhh]

I see a lot of people removing the entire cap of their boat to replace the floor. I realize some boats require this step, though i am hoping to skip that step with my little cobia sunskiff. I know its not the pure way of repairing, but with this small boat it sure seems possible to just cut the floor out and work from above. any arguments??

Thanks

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Welcome to iBoats!

Replacement of the deck is not the reason people remove the top cap. The main reason is to gain full access to the transom. In most cases if the deck needs to be replaced the stringers and transom will need attention as well and therefore the cap will need to be removed.

Hope this helps to explain things a bit better

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Hope this helps to explain things a bit better:

"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

I think my shift dog is worn, didn't finish my reply before hitting the 'Post Reply' button... :sleeping: :facepalm:

Let's try this again:

WOG's post was missing the link he was referring to, that portion I did post:

"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

But I'm not sure this boat:

Is built using this type of stringer system:

Yours appears to be a tub type construction, which if built like a Boston Whaler, is foam filled:

If so, and the deck is soft, the foam below it may be compromised, and make this a much more complicated repair then 'just removing & replacing the deck' whether the transom is damaged or not.

Best of luck w/ you project

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Oh, boy... Im hoping its nots just a ball of foam. It feels like there are solid ridges under the mostly soft floor, which i presumed to be stringers or bulkheads. I will be cutting an experimental hole in front of the console in the next few days.

Unlike the pic of the whaler there, the walls of this skiff are thin (tight to the outer hull), so maybe it wont be the same thing...

Wish me luck, i'll report what i find down there...w/ pics of course

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

My bad!!! That is definetely a "Tub" constructed boat. Meaning the entire Rail, sides and deck are a one piece molded construction. They can be a "Bear" to remove especially if the MFG glued it all together tot the sides and bottom. Not All were foam filled as JBC described so your's might not be. Your inspection will tell the tale. Being a one piece molded construction the deck is only soft because something below is rotting away. You can either remove the entire top or cut away the deck, see what the issue is, repair it and then lay the cut away section back in and glass it back together.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

I agree that you probably have a tub/liner cap like the boat in this thread:
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ble-1979-16-deckcraft-restoration-622987.html

Most of them can be removed with some persuasion.

Your decking will be bonded to the bottom of the liner and will come up with it exposing a large foam imprint of the cap. The foam will most likely be wet too.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Thanks all. The transom is nice and solid (even with a big old 85 Yamaha hangin there), so Im really hoping to just cut the main deck out and do all the work from there. I cant take the suspense, im cutting a hole tomorrow to see what lurks. Pics to come.

I appreciate the input

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

I cant take the suspense, im cutting a hole tomorrow to see what lurks

Hope for the best, plan for the worst ^^^........

Where ever you cut a hole, probably should be a fairly large diameter. Any idea how thick the deck is? Some of the stuff below it might be fairly close to the backside of the deck....

If you uncover foam that's dry at the surface, you should still use a 1 1/2-2" piece of PVC pipe (cut a couple 'teeth' in 1 end) to core drill all the way to the hull. The foam could be dry at/near the surface, and dripping water at the bottom.. If the newly removed core plug hole fills w/ water after you remove the core sample, that isn't good either. Even if the entire core sample was dry.

Good luck tomorrow.

How did you 'test' the transom to confirm it's nice & solid?

 

[bakerjw]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Cobyahh, it's nice to see someone else with a center console on here doing a rebuild. I've got my Stratos 1850 thread on here where I tackled, or perhaps it tackled me, a complete rebuild. These tub construction boats can be a real PITA. Sometimes the cap can lift very easily and other times it needs to be cut out. Mine required cutting and clung to the hull like a monkey to a bunch of bananas.

How thick are the sides of your boat? It is hard to tell from the pictures. If the inside is the hull, then you're lucky and cutting out the floor shouldn't be too bad. I saw a Kenner center console that was built that way i.e. a floor glassed directly to the hull. But as shown in the Boston Whaler picture some are just foamed in place. And then some are 2 piece, a cap and a hull mated together like my Stratos.

I'll tag along because these are my kind of boats.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Well after a lot of distractions (fishing), I finally cut into the old thing. Totally rotten! The stringers have composted into a nice soil. They were glassed rather poorly to where i can't tell how thick the wood was inside them ( there are thicker sections around fuel tank area, but im wondering about the single thick areas). I was thinking of going with 1/2" thick stringers for the most part...comments?
Whats the 'norm'?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

3/4"

You need to fasten the deck down to the stringers, even if you skip mechanical fasteners (screws) a 1/2" wide stringer won't have much surface area to apply PB or PL & have it remain on top of the stringer (which should be encased in glass) 'gluing' the deck to the stringer.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

If you have not absolutely 100% confirmed with Core Samples that the Transom is Solid and Sound, I'd be cutting out the rear section like this..

and doing a full restore on the boat.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

You read my mind. Already cut out the live wells. The back corners are foam blocks, which i hope to reuse.

Are there any good reads on bilge/ drainage theory?? I see some people sealing off all bulkheads, while some leave gaps for full drainage fore/aft. Its a real head scratcher...

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

A good reason not to rely too heavily on core samples...
Someone had good intentions, slid some good wood between the two sides of mush.


Im moving right along. This is my first boat project, though i do lots of other projects. I am amazed that every bit of wood was complete mush in this thing, other than the front platform. And, Every bit of foam area was dying to drain.

I am planning on putting a limber hole at the low point of each stringer, and using neatly sliced stacks of rigid foam. This boat may be HUNDREDS of pounds lighter after the rebuild, just from water weight and mud!!!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

A good reason not to rely too heavily on core samples...
Someone had good intentions, slid some good wood between the two sides of mush.

Those previous owners will do anything for a laff eh?!:laugh:

You did real good by tearing all the way into your boat instead of letting laziness and denial take over.

We have a few members here that would find the same thing in their boats that you found in yours but they claim that they're solid and all is good... but I think fear and denial has beaten them down.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Thanks! I had taken it out fishing about 5 times. The floor was soft and i was cringing every time, waiting for something bad to happen!

I look forward to knowing it is solid all the way through. It would be a real shame to have any doubts after putting in the time and money and sewing her back up...

Im going with roll of csm, 1708, 5 gal of poly unwaxed (for now), 3/4" inch marine ply for stringers, and 1/2" for deck. Im on a budget but i am not skimping on this, i wouldn't be able to sleep at night, or relax while fishing!!!

Couldn't do it without you guys! this site is the best.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

I got my wood finally and glued up two layers of 3/4" marine tech for the transom. Lots of clamps, screws, and a bottle of titebond III.

I've got about the last foot of the stringers ground away to make way for transom tabbing. I have a few areas of solid woven i encountered that have a little foam in the grooves.

I am wondering: Should i leave that nice thickness and glass over some of that? OR Do i need to grind all of that away?

Also, Is it wise to be rinsing the hull out between grindings, as i have been?

Thanks. Itchy......

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Lookin' good CA!

I'd grind that woven until at least all the foam was gone, you don't want that junk under anything.

 

[CobyAhh]

Re: Cap in, deck out?

Thanks Jign, I figured that was the answer. Just needed encouragement.

What about areas with a bit of PB. Will new glass stick to that if its ground a bit, or am i looking to get everything down to fibers?