Carb Issue

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

I dont have points... When the timing mark goes through the guage at 4 degrees advance and the light blinks timing is either on / or out 180. I have tried both ways! Choke is automatic

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Carb Issue

It will work with breakerless.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Carb Issue

It will work with breakerless,<br />do the coil wire spark jump.<br />What have you got to lose?

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Ok I'll give it a shot and post my results....

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Alright I disconnected the coil wire and put on an old wire I had in the shop, cut the boot back with scissors and brought it close to ground. The spark jumped the gap while cranking. Nice spark clearly visable in sunshine; looks like you could weld with it...

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Just so ya know... Spark jumps 12 mm gap on all 8 plug wires too

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Carb Issue

I never thought you were not getting spark.<br />I do wonder if the timing is correct.<br />The static meathod for setting timing<br />I posted above, will assure it is were it<br />is supposed to be.<br /><br />Whether or not the choke is auto or not<br />it needs to be open,(wired, adjusted) to<br />allow starting of a flooded motor.<br /><br />If indeed the timing is set correct, the carb float level correct and working proper(floats stick, valves leak, measured settings often proof insufficient)and not flooding the engine,<br />then it should start.<br />If it is flooded from too much accelerator<br />pump action, then you have to clear it out.<br />1 way is to hold choke open, throttle full open<br />and crank the motor, this lets max air in to<br />hopefully allow the gas to fire up.<br /><br />Please reread my post about static timing<br />and forget the test light part and use the <br />coil wire meathod. They both need the engine to be a 4 deg adv position on crank dampener, the only difference is one the, test light goes <br />on/off and the other the spark jumps.<br />I feel your close.<br /><br />If it is not flooded then you need to<br />pump the throttle (give it 3 or 4 squirts)<br />as you crank to give it plenty of gas.

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Ok - I am most appreciative for the time and effort you are putting into helping me. And I am willing to verify that #1 is on the compression stoke and not exhaust. But respectfully what's the difference between doing your static timing test and my using a timing light to do the same test? Not to mention that I've tried 180 on both sides of 4 degrees with same results - nothing.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Carb Issue

I don't know how your vib<br />damper timing marks are layed out.<br />Some can easily be misread while<br />engine is turning.<br />A spinning crank makes it hard to <br />verify it is not a 180 out.<br />It is just my anal way of dotting<br />my i's and crossing my t's.<br />It allows me to see firing order,<br />that it is advanced and not retarded,<br />I am getting a spark when and were I <br />should. Saves the battery. Helps me visualize<br />the timing process. Gives me a definate<br />base time. This will be handy when running<br />and checking timing to check out mechanical<br />advance.<br />And the best reason:<br /> NOONE will work with me to turn key<br />while I put timing light on it.<br /> <br /> So:<br />you are sure the timing is correct,<br />that leaves only fuel.<br />It is either flooded or lean.

 

[Don S]

Re: Carb Issue

You probably have it flooded. Pull the plugs and look and see if they are wet with gas. If they are, open the throttle wide open and crank it, You may have to move the distributor a little if to get the timing even close for it to start, but a flooded engine won't start even if you have perfect timing and perfect spark.<br />Once you get it running, set your timing with a timing light to book specs. Then check your advance timing.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Carb Issue

Good advice Don S<br />I should have said that........

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Carb Issue

what about firing order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.<br />Ive set timing by setting the timing mark at 0 on the damper, install dist., attempt start. if backfires, pull dist cap, rotate rotor 180 ,reinstall and try again.You can get clearance by grinding off the hex on a sparkplug socket.

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Is it me or should I be able to pull these freekin plugs without removing the manifolds! I have a socket and went at it with a grinder as recommended by BT. But still the manifold hangs down so close I'm afraid I'm going to break a plug. Is there a specific tool made that gets around this clearance issue?

 

[Don S]

Re: Carb Issue

You mean to tell me you haven't even pulled the plugs to look at them???? They could have water, gas, or who knows what else wrong with them that would tell you what the problem is.<br />With that old an engine you still have the old rounded manifolds which by this time should be dead no matter what they look like from the outside.<br />Here is a picture of what to do with a socket. Of course, it won't work with a Champion spark plug because they are too long for this application. Plus they shouldn't be used anyway because they don't work.<br /><br />

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

The engine is a new crate Don and has yet to be fired not old, I haven't taken the plugs out because I was afraid to break them, not because I don't want to. The plugs are AC Delco #1's not Champions. As far as the manifolds go, I placed a flexible 'snake type' inspection light down into each of the passage ways and into the elbows passageways too. They looked good from the inside, and this boat has never seen salt. Are you recommending that I need manifolds regardless? Also, if I have the wrong plugs and they break coz there too long, I'll get the right ones to replace them, what do I need?

 

[Don S]

Re: Carb Issue

Is this crate engine a Mercruiser engine or an aftermarket, and how about the manifolds?<br />If they are new they are probably fine, but not being able to see, hear, smell, or feel your engine, makes it very hard to diagnose without actually being there.<br />Makes it even worse when the thread gets real long and the subject changes in the middle some where.

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

Your answers one by one:<br />1 Aftermarket Long Block<br />2 Mercruiser and after looking at ebay they are in fact 'the rounded ones'.<br />3 Wish you were here!<br />4 Sorry about the thread - Lets just say the engine won't start<br /><br />My questions one by one:<br />1. Because I have 'the rounded ones' is that just blanket bad? Or it-depends-bad and possibly even ok?<br />2. What plugs do I need?<br />3. Are you basically saying stop everything until I can look at the plugs? Because if you are, I will.

 

[Don S]

Re: Carb Issue

My questions one by one:<br />1. Because I have 'the rounded ones' is that just blanket bad? Or it-depends-bad and possibly even ok?<br /><br />No, it doesn't make them bad, just very hard to change the spark plugs. The manifolds and risers work fine as manifolds and risers. They just make the maintenance a real PITA.<br /><br />2. What plugs do I need?<br /><br />NGK BR6FS<br /><br />3. Are you basically saying stop everything until I can look at the plugs? Because if you are, I will.<br /><br />Kind of, if you have spark to the plugs, open the throttle wide open and see if it starts. That will clear a flooding problem most times.<br /><br />If it doesn't start, then it's time to find out why.

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Carb Issue

My focus will now be turned towards the plugs Don. The maniflods are probably original to the boat. This is what I meant by 'bad' Don. Am I just crazy thinking that a 16 year old manifold can possibly be ok?

 

[paulrfrancisco]

Re: Carb Issue

How about using a universal on the socket with an extension.. Would that help the clearance?<br /><br />also, I never tried it, but what about a box wrench, just to break them loose then remove with fingers.. are the plugs set too deep to get a box wrench on them?