Carburetor Port

[Bondo]

Then there are the old standbys, High-Tack and Form-a-gasket No.2.

Ayuh,..... Form-a-gasket #3 is exactly the same stuff as Quicksilver Perfect Seal,...

A brushable liquid, non-hardenin' sealant,...

Also what I use on many, Many things,....

 

[62cruiserinc]

I bought a can of the Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket #3 from NAPA (after Bondo's comment that it was the same as Perfect Seal)..

I also bought 4 feet of Tygon tubing (the last 4 feet they had in stock) at NAPA, thanks to Scott06's suggestion.

Now I have everything I need to change the fuel pump. Except for the necessary body flexibility to cram myself into the underfloor engine compartment to actually do the job. I may have to put a board across the floor over the compartment and do it while my upper body hangs upside-down between the fuel pump and gas tank.

Steve

 

[Rick Stephens]

Except for the necessary body flexibility to cram myself into the underfloor engine compartment to actually do the job. I may have to put a board across the floor over the compartment and do it while my upper body hangs upside-down between the fuel pump and gas tank.

Steve

Ain't boatin fun!

 

[62cruiserinc]

Ain't boatin fun!

It's a little TOO much fun, lol.

It's such a big deal to get to the pump that I may take the suggestion from AllDodge and unscrew the sight glass, replace it with a barbed fitting, and run the Tygon from there to the carb.

Steve

 

[Rick Stephens]

Sounds like a great idea. What good is a sight glass you can't see without being double jointed?

 

[62cruiserinc]

Sounds like a great idea. What good is a sight glass you can't see without being double jointed?

I'm going to keep the new fuel pump as a spare, and replace the sight glass with the tube as I mentioned above. If I see any gas in the tube, I will replace the pump.

I assume that I shouldn't ever see any gas in the Tygon tube, and if I do see gas that means the pump is bad?

Steve

 

[alldodge]

I assume that I shouldn't ever see any gas in the Tygon tube, and if I do see gas that means the pump is bad?

Yes if you see gas there is an issue. If you see any gas in the glass bowl now there is an issue

 

[62cruiserinc]

Well, it looks like there is a small amount of gas in the bottom of the bowl. If you look at post #9, I show a picture of the pump and sight glass and you can just see some gas in the bottom.

What is the opinion on replacing the mechanical pump with an electric pump? I would just plug off the current pump and go directly into the gas filter/water separator. I would use a marine pump, oil pressure switch, etc.

The reason I am considering an electric pump is that it's going to be very hard to get to the pump and replace it. Especially if there are any problems getting the lever under the pushrod as some have encountered. I can't even SEE the pump directly. I would need to remove a bunch of hoses and hardware to avoid it becoming a completely blind, "by feel" replacement.

Steve

 

[Rick Stephens]

Well, it looks like there is a small amount of gas in the bottom of the bowl. If you look at post #9, I show a picture of the pump and sight glass and you can just see some gas in the bottom.

What is the opinion on replacing the mechanical pump with an electric pump? I would just plug off the current pump and go directly into the gas filter/water separator. I would use a marine pump, oil pressure switch, etc.

The reason I am considering an electric pump is that it's going to be very hard to get to the pump and replace it. Especially if there are any problems getting the lever under the pushrod as some have encountered. I can't even SEE the pump directly. I would need to remove a bunch of hoses and hardware to avoid it becoming a completely blind, "by feel" replacement.

Steve

Those tasks to access the pump would be normal mechanics job. Wonder why your auto mechanic charges 4 hours to change a sensor? That's the reason, takes 3.75 hours to get to the damn thing.

I think it is easier to pull ALL the stuff off the front of the motor than it is to swap to an electric, not that swapping to electric is all that hard, I just don't think taking the accessories off the motor is a big deal either. If you decide to go electric, it will need to be wired in carefully. Means adding some components. Drew this for a guy yesterday. The relay is switched on either from the oil pressure switch or the outer lug on the starter solenoid during cranking.

 

[alldodge]

What is the opinion on replacing the mechanical pump with an electric pump?

No issue, just need to install the stuff and re-plumb the new pump between filter and carb

very hard to get to the pump and replace it

Totally understand, but that's mechanic work. Have to spend half the job removing things to get at what you need to work on. That said, your first pump lasted a long time, this one should last at least 1/2 that time if not the same

 

[62cruiserinc]

Ok, I looked at it again. If I remove the gas filter and the hose from the water pump to the thermostat housing, I should be able to access the pump. The two parts I want to remove are shown below on a web picture I found of my engine:



Any issues I should know about removing that particular hose?

Thanks
Steve

 

[62cruiserinc]

OK, I put in the new mechanical fuel pump today. It wasn't very hard to access it once the fuel filter and two coolant hoses were removed.

The "bent hacksaw blade" trick worked great to postion the pushrod.

There were two "problem areas" that showed up during installation.

One, the old fuel pump (likely the original 1981) was made of steel (built like a tank) and the mounting flange was 5/16" thick. The new Carter pump is made of cast aluminum with a much thicker mounting flange (11/16"). The original mounting bolts didn't reach anymore. I went home and found some longer bolts and installed the pump.

The other problem is the fuel line connections. The old pump had both in and out at the same level. The new pump has one port lower than the other. The steel fuel line from the filter to the pump no longer reaches. Do I need to keep this line a hard line or can I cut the existing hard line and insert a piece of fuel hose? Also, does anyone know which port on the Carter pump is in and which is out? I could research it online but I was hoping someone would know and save me some searching.

Someone had previously mentioned that the line from the fuel pump to the carb should be a hard line and I said it was. However, looking at it closer today, there is hard line exiting the fuel pump and a hard line at the carb. However, the hard line stops at the intake manifold area and there is a hose inline with it along with a small fuel filter, hose again, and finally back to a hard line to the carb. Is this bad?

Thanks
Steve

 

[alldodge]

I starting to see a couple possible issues coming up, the thicker pump could cause an issue with pump stroke and may cause pressure issue. The other is the pump you got may not be for your motor. Time will tell as we move forward

IMO, other differ: The line from the pump to the crab should be either hard or have fittings that will not let loose over time. Most folks cut a fuel line and insert some rubber line to make it work. It the line was cut and flared this would be OK, but it almost never is. So to do this correctly and cheaply, go to the local auto store and get some break line of the same size.

Find a line close to the length needed. Either that of get a barber fitting for the carb and the pump and use some rubber A1 fuel line to connect the two together

 

[achris]

Line before the pump is fine to be flexible (rubber) because it's the suction side. If it leaks you just suck air into the fuel system and the engine stops. Line after the pump is pressurized. If that leaks you spray fuel all over a hot engine. That rarely ends with "and they lived happily ever after".

 

[62cruiserinc]

achris:

yep, I'm trying to avoid the big bang or fire, that's why I'm being so picky here.

AllDodge:

When I work on cars, I always flare the tube before slipping a hose over it. I don't see a bulge in the hose that would indicate a flare. Can I just remove the hose and put a flare on the end of the tube?

I wonder why they put a small inline fuel filter in the hose section of the line? I already have the large filter/water separator. I don't like the little filter sitting on top of the intake manifold. It looks like a cheapo see-thru one you would put on a lawn mower. Are these types of inline filters common on boats?

The previous pump was the "sight glass" model. This pump is the part for non-sight glass applications, which might explain the difference. It looks like the thicker part was on the outside of the flange to strengthen the aluminum in that area. As you said, we'll see.

Steve

 

[achris]

achris:

yep, I'm trying to avoid the big bang or fire, that's why I'm being so picky here.

:thumb:

AllDodge:

When I work on cars, I always flare the tube before slipping a hose over it. I don't see a bulge in the hose that would indicate a flare. Can I just remove the hose and put a flare on the end of the tube?

Yes, use new hose though.

I wonder why they put a small inline fuel filter in the hose section of the line? I already have the large filter/water separator. I don't like the little filter sitting on top of the intake manifold. It looks like a cheapo see-thru one you would put on a lawn mower. Are these types of inline filters common on boats?

Unfortunately it is common on boats, but it's also very illegal! Those filters are invariably plastic. There should be NO filter on the pressure side of the pump, just a line from the pump to the carb. The only filter should be on the suction side. Again, things leaking you want sucking air, not spraying fuel...

The previous pump was the "sight glass" model. This pump is the part for non-sight glass applications, which might explain the difference. It looks like the thicker part was on the outside of the flange to strengthen the aluminum in that area. As you said, we'll see.

I can't see the flange being thicker being a problem. The critical distance is from the mounting side of the flange to the cam follower arm, and that should have been the same for both pumps.

Chris......

 

[62cruiserinc]

I will replace the hose/inline filter with a new hose (connected to flared hard line).

I assume there is special fuel hose for boats that is approved and available at boat supply stores (West Marine, etc) ?

Steve

 

[alldodge]

The only gas hose to use on a boat is Type A1 and can be found, search "type A1 fuel line"

 

[62cruiserinc]

I called our local West Marine store and they have 3/8" Type A1 fuel line in stock (at $7 per foot!).

So I will be going there today or tomorrow to get about 3 feet so I can finish the job.

Steve

 

[62cruiserinc]

I looked closer at the inline fuel filter from the pump to the carb. It's not one of the plastic cheapos. The frame is metal and the clear portion appears to be glass.

Should I still remove it, since I have a filter/separator before the pump?

Here is a picture, the filter is just below the carb linkage:



Steve