Change from reg. oils to synthetic

[GlasV162]

Hi,
I just changed boat mechanics and he's recommending changing to synthetic--for the outboard oil and the lower unit gear lube. He swears by it, but I've heard that it's not a good idea to change to it on an older motor; I have a '90 Evinrude 90 hp VRO which will have a rebuilt powerhead for next season. Is it ok to change to synthetic for both the VRO and the lower unit, and, if so, is it worth the extra cost? Thanks.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

If you are getting a new powerhead then it won't be used to any kind of oil. But either way, it's not going to make any difference to the engine, as far as it not being good for it.

It's all personal preference. Personally I don't think that synthetics provide any more protection than a good conventional TC-W3, and even if they did slightly, it's not worth the extra cost to me. I only ran it in my FICHT and even then it was partial synthetic.

As for the lower unit, you can switch to it no problem. But again I don't think synthetic offers any more protection that conventional lower unit lube.

Just my opinion though. If you did want to swicth, I'm pretty sure there are no special procedures. I think that has bled over from the auto industry, and in that case it is only a matter of worn older seals leaking synthetic because it tends to be thinner.

If you want to find out everything you ever wanted to know about oils and fluids, check out, bobistheoilguy.com, you will have your head spinning in 10 minutes.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

No problem. You'll be pleased. In my stock motors (carb'd) I don't see any advantage from the full synthetic oil (in the gas) to the blend but I do use the synthetic gear lube.

 

[h_lankford]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

by the time a synthetic oil allows my engine's internal parts to last longer, all the plastic parts and other stuff will be long broken. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I had a race engine and wanted more protection and another hp or two, then yes.

Lower smoking may be best reason to do it. I use in it my chainsaw because it doesn't smell. I don't have to breathe the fumes in my boat.

 

[F_R]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

I recently switched to Castrol Full Synthetic TC-W3 oil after doing a little experimentation. First thing I noticed was much less smoke especially at prolonged idle. Much, much less. Secondly, I flicked a couple of drops of regular fuel mix on the water surface and the rainbow sheen spread out many feet in all directions and stayed there. Doing the same thing with the synthetic also produced a sheen but only for a few feet, and it quickly dissapeared. Whether there is any difference in engine life, I probably won't live long enough to find out. But from an environmental standpoint, I'm a convert. Besides, it's less embarassing when cranking up at the launching ramp.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

I too witness less smoking.

use it in fuel and lower unit. Pennzoil is the brand that has both. Don't know who else does.

Interesting point I noticed. I bought some Quicksilver premium plus oil at the Merc dealer and no where on it did it say anything about being syn. Bought some Pennzoil premium plus and it said full syn. Now, since Merc doesn't make oil, and Penn is a nationaly known and trusted brand, and the names are exactly the same (coincidental), you don't suppose the Merc oil is really syn and they just aren't mentioning it. Could be.

Also noticed that Quicksilver (Merc) makes (sells) several (at least 2) lower unit oils supposedly made for normal and high perf applications. Now, since Penn could be making their engine oil, why wouldn't they also be contracted to make their lower unit oil, and why couldn't the super high perf stuff be the same syn oil that Penn house labels?

Had the same thing with Mopar + 4 auto tranny fluid for the new transmissions......the ones that are built to never drain the oil under normal operating conditions.... From the Mopar dealer under their label it said nothing on the container about being syn. Bought some Valvoline + 4 and it clearly stated that it was for Mopar trannys and that it was full syn. We know that Mopar builds cars and Valvoline is renoun for oil production/marketing.

Interesting. Maybe they are afraid of public acceptance/denial of syn so they don't say anything about it. Besides, the less the consumer knows about an OEM product, the harder it is for them (consumer) to get the same thing at a reduced price aftermarket. d

Course the aftermarket hasn't been tested by the OEM (necessarily) so they can't really endorse it.......but if it's the same product......

Mark

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

My mech. is an Amsoil dealer; he carries a full line of their products, including motor oil and gear oil. Any opinions of Amsoil out there? Thanks.

 

[F_R]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

I was looking to try some but couldn't find it locally. Wal-Mart had the Castrol, so.....

Is Amsoil still saying 100:1 mix? I would be hesitant to do that.:%

 

[GlasV162]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

I'm not sure--my outboard is VRO....so I assume it will continue to mix at 50:1 regardless of the type of oil used. And, on my 9.9 hp premix, I will definitely stick to 50:1.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

Now I know why your mechanic is trying to get you to switch to synthetic. Amsoil runs their business like a pyramid scheme, next he'll be trying to get you to be a dealer too, so you can be "licensed" to sell Amsoil and he can sell you the "license".

Not to say they don't have a good product, but they have no TC-W3 certification on Amsoil. They claim they are too good to get the TC-W3 certification, so they don't bother. And they might be, so might Royal Purple, but to me regular good quality TC-W3 is so far beyond dealer specs, that I don't see the need to pay the extra cost for something even further beyond that.

Less smoking is a definite. Environmentally....c'mon, most of us are running carbed 2 strokes here, if we really wanted to be environmentally friendly, we'd all have 4 strokes or E-tecs.

Like I said before, personal opinion.

If you really want to find everything out about Amsoil and how they operate, look at bobistheoilguy.com, you'll find it all out there. Do a search on Amsoil there and you'll get 2 weeks of reading.

 

[ray estep]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

when I switched to synthetic in my minivan it totally stopped using oil. It used to use about a quart every month or two. Thats all I need to know. I'd nver go below 50:1 thow. Thats too hard of a way to find out someone was wrong. Motors aren't cheep

Ozarks R&R

 

[mikesjohnson]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

just say no to Penzoil, FOR ANY MOTOR!!! i am an auto mechanic, and have seen first hand the damage that penzoil can cause to an engine.

let me give you just one of several examples:
recently a truck came through our shop, with approx 65k miles on it. the lady had her oil changed on a semi-regular basis at an "un-named" quick lube place. semi-regular being about every 4k miles. her engine had started to knocking. upon removal of the valve covers i found that the sludge was so thick, i had to dig through it to get to the head bolts, so in order to keep her engine covered under 7/70 powetrain warranty, Diamler Chrysler asked her to provide oil change records. she brought all her maintinence records in, and the engine was covered. she got lucky, you may not be as lucky as her.

penzoil uses a waxed based additive to help their oil "cling" better, and it works great. but that dosent mean its a good thing. do you want your engine to become sludged, possibly causing reeds to stick, or the foot oil to possibly turn to TAR?! the only thing it's good for is using it in quarts, as paper weight to keep repair orders from flying off in the wind.

as for texasmark's comment about ATf+4, you are correct in the fact that it is a full synthetic. but dont forget about the trans filter. the are usually good for about 30k, at best. and what is "normal" driving conditions. this is a whole different topic, but i would bet my boat that according to Mopar, the driving you are doing is not what they consider "normal" jsut keep the filter changed, and your tranny will ast a long while. i know so much about mopar, because i am a Dodge dealer tech.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

You'd be surpised to find out just how many different oils are made by Penzoil. It's like saying don't use Fram filters, but most of what you buy is probably made by Fram anyway.

 

[h_lankford]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

mikesjohnson

I think a more likely explanation is not the choice of brand-name oil, but whether the owner had very short driving cycles thus not allowing the oil to heat up, or there was a blowby or lack of crankcase ventilation problem.

or......did the quick lube place actually change her oil or not??? Some have been unscrupulous and the unsuspecting motorist would have no clue, just a bill.

 

[F_R]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

Short driving cycles. That's a good point. My wife would start her v-8 buick and drive it less than two miles to work and back each day. One winter day, I pulled the dipstick and was absolutely shocked at the crud clinging to it. And we live in Florida!

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

Yeah that'll do it. Not to mention the amount of dilution from condensation that doesn't evaporate out when you drive short trips and run rich the whole way.

 

[red boat]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

Do not use synthetic during the 10hr breakin of the powerhead. My reman powerhead came with a note specifically stating not to use semi-or full synthetic oil during breakin because it will not allow the new rings to seat correctly. After breakin You should be ok. I have switched to full synthetic gear lube and semi synthetic in the vro and have had good luck with both so far.

 

[mikesjohnson]

Re: Change from reg. oils to synthetic

it's not the short trip driving, rather the bakeing of the oil that causes sludging. when you take a waxed based oil and short trip it, it bakes due to blow-by (that hot gas dosent exit through the exhaust remember, it has to work it's way out through a breather). but the reason this starts is because the wax based oil starts to fill in the crosshatched hone marks in the cylinder causing poor oil control/cylinder glazing (hot or cold), which then causes blow-by which heats the oil mist caused by the crank splashing in the oil pan turning it into a very fine mist of baked oil "smoke." that oil finally sticks to any surface not moving at a high rate of speed, where it begins to collect and cause sludge.

next time you change your oil use penzoil (1 time wont hurt) and get it hot. remove the oil cap and note the amount of smoke comming from the oil fill. then drain it and re-fill with valvoline multi grade (same viscosity as on cap). get it hot again and repeat. this time you will notice much less smoke.

buy the way: valvoline is the only oil manufacture of oil of the big three oil companies (valvoline, penzoil, castrol) that uses no wax based solvents in ther oil. i have the sheet somewhere in my DCA school stuff that has the additives(minus a few secrets). it's amazing the lengths an auto manufacturer will go to when testing their product. even seeing the distance oil will last. in thier "real world" testing, the engineers determined it wasn't even necessary to change syn. oil, only add oil to maintain level and change the filter every 7500k (mobil 1). penzoil already had particles that were 25 microns and more after a simulated 1500 miles. most engine wear/damage is from particles of 20 microns and less.

my advice, use syn. oil, and i'll try to find the paper work and scan a .jpg of it for all to see.