Closed Cooling System on Port Engine Running Hot(ter)

[achris]

Circ pump circ pump circ pump.

 

[tpenfield]

Yup, probably tomorrow's work while the storm (Hermine) sets in.

 

[tpenfield]

Another tidbit piece of info . . . I ran the boat yesterday a bit faster than I have been this season (3400 rpm, 38 mph) and the Starboard (good) engine actually got to the same temperature (per the gauge) as the port (troubled) engine.

Of course, when I slowed down, the starboard (good) engine's temperature 'recovered' much quicker than the port engine

 

[achris]

Have you done anything about finding out why the port engine sensors don't report to Diacom the same as the starboard engine?

BTW, you do realise that as you run closed cooling you can run a standard automotive circ pump. Just change the backing plate if the new one isn't stainless. (Same yourself a hundred dollars or so)

 

[tpenfield]

Have you done anything about finding out why the port engine sensors don't report to Diacom the same as the starboard engine?

BTW, you do realise that as you run closed cooling you can run a standard automotive circ pump. Just change the backing plate if the new one isn't stainless. (Same yourself a hundred dollars or so)

Yes, I can just go to NAPA, if need be. I replaced the Recirc pump on the starboard engine 4 years ago, as it had a bearing seal leak. The port recirc. is probably original.

 

[tpenfield]

Quick update :

I took the recirc. pump off for inspection. It looks very good. Passage ways are clear, the impeller looks great, not loose or anything, hoses connected to the pump were clear.

The only thing that I noticed is that when I was taking the pump off, the V-belt was not fully tight. Not to say it was loose by any means, I could get the pulley to turn one way, but not the other as I tried to loosen the 4 bolts holding the pulley on the pump spindle. So, I was thinking to myself, what a kick in the pants it would be if that turned out to be the issue . . . A slightly loose belt. :facepalm:

I did not put things back together (yet), because the Admiral wanted to go have some brews on the beach. Despite the intimidating forecast for tropical storm Hermine, the weather is actually quite nice, just a bit breezy.

I may get a chance to put things back together tomorrow, depending on the weather.

 

[HT32BSX115]

I still have the original pump on my 97 454 (SJE cooled) engine. If I ever replaced the pump, I would definitely get a (regular) pump at the local autoparts store.

Ted, before I installed the (same) SJE cooling system on my 454 in 2006, and because I had my engine on a stand, I removed all the core plugs with the water pump removed.

I flushed the engine block and heads (block multiple times) and actually did get a fair amount of sand and sediment out of the lower areas in the block around the cyls.

With the core plugs removed and using a flashlight, I was actually able to see some of it (where you could see into the cooling area around the hole) that did not just "wash" out with the movement of the water. That sand and sediment was of course "mixed" with rust, and where I could poke with a wire, I was able to break what I could get to loose.

This was with only 122 hrs of open-cooled non-salt water operation.

I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a hot flush with FORD VC-9, Cummins RESTORE or other equivalent rust removal "stuff"

Also, many of the engine coolants will precipitate silicate "drop-out" where the stuff actually makes a "goo" that will begin to clog passages if they get bad enough.

There are different coolant flush products that will remove the silicates and rust.

here's one that should be available locally..... https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/south-pacific/cooling-system-cleaners

 

[tpenfield]

After sitting at the beach all day, and having to call back to the house for more beers, I was hoping just to be able to tighten the v-belt and all would be good again

 

[HT32BSX115]

After sitting at the beach all day, and having to call back to the house for more beers, I was hoping just to be able to tighten the v-belt and all would be good again

I for for one, will crossing my fingers for you!:thumb:

 

[tpenfield]

Labor Day Update,

I put the port engine back together, made sure the v-belt was tight, loaded up the engine with anti-freeze and ran it up to temperature. No real difference in the temperature from before. I only ran the engines at idle while at the mooring, because the T. S. Hermine has set in a bit more today . . . Clouds and wind so taking the boat out was not in the cards.

The port engine settled in at 165 per the gauge and the starboard engine set in at 148 per the gauge, after about 20 minutes of idling. So, I can assume it is not the recirculating pump, nor the v-belt.

At this point, I will just run the boat the few more times this season as AD mentioned and do some raw water flow testing as Rick had suggested.

I was just thinking that the last time I had a cooling system issue with a boat, it was the 24 footer, and it turned out to be a barnacle lodged in the sea water intake hose that goes from the bell housing to the transom assembly.

 

[tpenfield]

Here are a couple of pictures that I took of the gauges after about 20 minutes of run time (at idle)

Port Engine:




Starboard Engine:


So, pretty much where we were . . .

 

[tpenfield]

Just catching up on some pictures from yesterday, when I took the water pump off.

Here is the water pump removed . . .


Backing plate removed to inspect the impeller and internal passages.


The impeller looks very good. . .


For the rest of the day the Admiral and I followed the weather channels advice for our area and took refuse and hunkered down to ride out the storm . . .

 

[alldodge]

That's taking one for the team Ted, don't know if I could do it with that small a cooler

 

[tpenfield]

That's taking one for the team Ted, don't know if I could do it with that small a cooler

Yup, we had the small cooler. Later that day, we had to call back to the house for additional supplies

 

[nola mike]

Keep that cooler on the starboard side...

 

[HT32BSX115]

Just catching up on some pictures from yesterday, when I took the water pump off.

Ted,

Looking at your oil cooler(left of your alternator) , did you say that you already removed it and looked through it?

 

[tpenfield]

Ted,

Looking at your oil cooler(left of your alternator) , did you say that you already removed it and looked through it?

Yes, I backflushed it, probed it with a wire, and visually checked the ends for debris. There is another cooler before it (power steering ? ) and I went though that one too.

The cooler in the picture has a similar design as a heat exchanger, where the sea water passes through a matrix of tubes. The other cooler has a more open passage for the sea water.

I think my next steps here are to measure the actual flow of sea water of each engine to see if there is a significant difference.

 

[tpenfield]

Update:

I ran a test of the raw water flow through the cooling system. The test consisted of attaching a hose to the discharge fitting of the heat exchanger where it normally connects to a set of hoses that run out to the elbows. So, I am testing the flow through the entire raw water system, except for the exhaust elbows.

Anyway, I ran the engines up to temperature, hooked up a hose to the discharge fitting of the H. E. Started the engine and then put the hose into a 5 gallon pail and timed how long it took to fill the pail.

The port engine took 40 seconds to pump 5 gallons of sea water. So, 7.5 gallons per minute at idle.
The starboard engine took 33 seconds to pump 5 gallons of sea water. So, 9.1 gallons per minute at idle.

Both engines idle around 625 rpm +/-

The starboard engine has 20% greater raw water flow through the open side of the cooling system based on this test, which exceeds the difference in rpm between the 2 engines. The starboard engine was tending to idle in the 640 rpm range and the port engine idles in the 620 rpm range when I did my Diacom testing.

So, I figure that worst case, the starboard engine has about 15% greater flow even considering a slightly higher idle speed.

 

[HT32BSX115]

I would think that 15% less flow should still allow the thermostat to make up the difference....... .........you could have some debris or sand in the water jacket around the cylinders. Mine had *some* after only 122 hrs....

Rust can mix with sand and/or other debris. This is where FORD VC-9 or Cummins Filtration "Restore Plus" might loosen and remove that stuff if it's present, then you can flush it out.

 

[tpenfield]

I would think that 15% less flow should still allow the thermostat to make up the difference....... .........you could have some debris or sand in the water jacket around the cylinders. Mine had *some* after only 122 hrs....

Rust can mix with sand and/or other debris. This is where FORD VC-9 or Cummins Filtration "Restore Plus" might loosen and remove that stuff if it's present, then you can flush it out.

I may give that engine treatment a try. We went over to Martha's Vineyard today to stay the night in Vineyard Haven. I had the boat going about 3K rpm, 32 mph and both engines were at 170 F. When I came off plane the starboard engine went down to 160 F while the port engine stayed up at 170 F.