Concerns with professional rebuild

GHBAY

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Well... im pretty discouraged today...


I went to the shop I have had my boat at this winter, getting transom done, partial stringer repair (around motor mounts), topdeck and hull gel'd, floor redone, and bottom coat with VC17.


Went in today to take a look at progress. The gel and paint were complete, engine went back in this week, and all hardware is coming in the next week or so.


I have heard nothing but great things about this shop. They have been great to deal with all winter. But I arrive to see this:



At first i just notice the crack on the strake at the stern. as i look closer, i see the enormous hook in the hull. They posted the boat wrong on stands when they moved it, and when they re-installed the motor this week, it hooked and also cracked the new paint. They quickly jacked it and corrected the hook, but obviously this is concerning.

First, the fact that they let it occur. Second, what damage is done, or was done previously that allowed it to take such a drastic curve? How concerned should I be with the hook even if it doesnt appear bad now that the boat was properly supported? The stringers were thoroughly investigated prior to the work beginning and all checked out solid all the way through the boat, except a section by the motor mounts that was rebuilt with coosa board. Does the fact that it took that hook suggest that investigation was not thorough enough? Is that to be expected when it is jacked in that manner?


Equally concerning was what came next... after seeing that, I started inspecting the bottom in detail. While I contracting them for a full fairing/prep/paint, the bottom was riddled with pin holes through the VC17, as well as numerous areas where it is clear it was not sanded well. when i say riddled, i mean riddled. i'm talking hundreds of pin-holes through the brand new paint. Lots of what appear to be high and low spots as well.

The manager and owner that were there with me agreed that it was not right and that they will correct it. I have no doubt they will attempt to do so- they appear to be totally stand-up guys, but how concerned should i be with the work that has been done? Am I justified in thinking all pin holes, blemishes, etc should be completed eliminated when i am paying a substantial amount of money for full fairing, etc? That was certainly my expectation...

The conversation with the shop was amiable, despite how disconcerted i am. I am trying to be reasonable here and not unnecessarily anal or nitpicky, but I am just blown away by this.

your thoughts?
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
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25,929
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

What kind of commitment do you have from them "In Writing". My experience tells me that in the end "If it ain't in writing...It never happened!" I'd go over the final product with a "Magnifying Glass" before I took delivery especially the Hook area and any and all cracks and pinholes. It's your money and they are advertised Pro's. You should pay for Professional Results, just like what comes from any dealer. I don't think you'd buy a NEW boat with a hook in the hull or noticeable cracks and pinholes in the paint. I sure wouldn't and I don't think they would either.
 

jigngrub

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Mar 19, 2011
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8,155
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

We see lots of people on this forum that have bad experiences with shop work, and it's extremely rare for anyone to report about a shop job well done.

I personally would be super pissed about the items you've mentioned, especially if they've had the boat all winter.

... and heck yeah I'd be worried about what else wasn't done right, especially the stringer inspection and partial repair. For me, partial stringer replacement isn't an option. Stringers are designed to be monolithic structural members.

Sorry to say, but I don't think this is going to be your last unpleasant surprise with the work done on your boat. The odds weren't in your favor to begin with and these problems are really stacking the odds against you being pleased with the work you've paid for.
 

GHBAY

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

I hear ya! I am going to hold out hope that they do the right thing and fix everything i have seen-- its the unseen I dont know what to do about.

the partial repair was described as sufficient since it was just a build-out/strengthening of the aft part where the motor mounts were. The description of the work made sense to me at the time- i will try to find a pic of it. I think i was sent one after the coosa board went in, before it was finished. hopefully i dont live to regret it.

in terms of the hull hook/oilcan affect-- how do i evaluate that? is that the sign of a failed stringer? compromised hull?

arghhhhh!!

i do wish i could have done it myself, but space, tools, and time dont allow it (even if i would have been learning on the job), so i bit the bullet and paid someone to do it for me.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

There shouldn't be any fisheyes in the VC17, it may not be perfectly smooth, but it should be uniform. Fisheyes indicate a poorly prepared surface, either not sanded well, or contaminated.

If a brace is put in the wrong place it may warp the hull, if left there for too long the hull may take on the new shape, over time it may change back though. If any glass work was done in that area while it was warped, it will be locked in the shape.

Some hulls are thinner than others, so it can be different in each situation, they can be deformed from just sitting on a trailer sometimes.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

A straight edge on the bottom of the hull should reveal no deformity in the area and a flat surface. "Sistered" stringers are perfectly acceptable if fastened and glassed in properly. I'd be much more concerned with the hook.
 

GHBAY

Seaman
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Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

There was no fiberglass work done while it was jacked like this- was only in that position for a couple days, and the engine went in yesterday or today I believe. It 'appears' straight now that it was re-positioned on the stands, but I have no idea how to verify nothing is compromised that i cant see,

in terms of what i have in writing, it is quite clear what i am paying for:

Sand down the hull
Grind out all damaged areas
Fill & fair with epoxy fillers
Mask off boat
Epoxy coat the bottom w/ VC17

Again, I do have confidence in the owner taking the steps to make this right- I suspect/ am hoping he was as surprised as I was to see the lack of quality in the work. Im just worried about what i cant see/wont know till much later...
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

Here's an example. My daugther recently had a plumber do some work under her house where she couldn't see the work. She asked me what to do to ensure she didn't get ripped off, I told her to get it in writing about what was to be done, materials to be used and have him take pics of the work as it was being done. If he refused, then get someone that would. She found a plumber that took pics of his work...He even video'd it to prove there were no leaks!!! He DID quality work and the pics proved it!!! She WILL recommend him to everybody. I'd do this with any kind of work I contracted for. Boats included. You can't be there to babysit but pics can prove what was done and what was used. That's why we ask for pics here on the forum all the time. If you have confidence in the owner, then ask him for a warranty. If he truly has done the work correctly he shouldn't have a problem giving one within reason.
 
Last edited:

tpenfield

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Jul 18, 2011
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18,149
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

Maybe the shop is not as good as you would have hoped for . . . what brand/model boat is this?

Usually the hull and supporting structure is pretty substantial towards the stern and in the area of the engine mounts. I would assume that the crack in the strake occurred when they caused the hook in the hull by overloading it with the jackstand (or whatever they used to support it).

I would be interested on what the inside area of the 'hook' looks like. . .

Clearly they did some things that a good shop would not do. You will probably have to discuss more thoroughly with the shop owner/manager.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

If a brace is put in the wrong place it may warp the hull, if left there for too long the hull may take on the new shape, over time it may change back though. If any glass work was done in that area while it was warped, it will be locked in the shape.

Some hulls are thinner than others, so it can be different in each situation, they can be deformed from just sitting on a trailer sometimes.

I agree. If the hull hooked while on the supports and then the work was done then it could be permanent now.

Now with that mentioned........ I am concerned on how easily it was hooked. Could there be a weaker structure then originally thought? A hull "hooking" that easy would indicate to me a few things........ it is a thin hull, possible faulty/weak stringers and improper support during the repair.

Once that "hook" is repaired........ measures need to be taken to reinforce that area from the inside so it does not flex under the water pressure while under power.
 

greenbush future

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Aug 28, 2009
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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

You did suggest the hook seemed to disappear after they reinstalled your motor? Are we talking V8 weight or a outboard weight? I could see a boat hull flexing from removing a V8 from the stern. Obviously the support method was incorrect, anyone's guess if it will relax back to it's normal shape. Seems like you are having good dialog, and they recognize the mistakes. Give them the chance to fix what they have damaged. Shops like this will carry insurance (usually) and if all else fails it may need to be considered a reasonable claim on their side. I would be collecting and getting everything in writing, for documentation purposes, so there is no disputing what has occurred. Do this for the benefit of both you and him, it will help in the claim process if it gets to that point. I think to be successful in this situation, keeping your cool and keeping good open dialog with the shop owner will really be key in the outcome. You di suggest these guys have a good reputation, and come recommended or something to that thought. It's unfortunate this occurred, but with some reasonable effort, you should end up in good shape eventually. I'd stay away from discussions about lawyers and all that negative crap, it wont help unless they become unreasonable.
 

GHBAY

Seaman
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Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

The hook only occurred when they moved it this week after painting, and then added the weight of the motor. The pic below was taken just after they put in the proper supports. There is still a slight hook in this picture- it was a minute or two after the support 'fix'.

The motor is a 4.3 volvo penta- not a v8

 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

If the boat didn't have a hook in it when you took it in it shouldn't have a hook in it when you take it out. That would be totally unacceptable for me.
 

GHBAY

Seaman
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
70
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

If the boat didn't have a hook in it when you took it in it shouldn't have a hook in it when you take it out. That would be totally unacceptable for me.

I agree completely! IF it settles back to proper shape, visually, how far do I go to verify that it is sound? The inside flooring was resurfaced. Do I get them to pull up a section and inspect?
 

ondarvr

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11,527
Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

Many boats have a hook in the hull from sitting on the trailer, so before having them take all the blame check and see how it sits on the trailer.

Where it deformed is most likely between any internal supports, and would be common in many boats if they were supported in the same way. In some hulls foam is relied upon to support the hull surface between stingers, as the foam breaks down the hull begins to flex more.

The only way to know the reason it flexed so much is to open that section and look.
 

DeepBlue2010

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Aug 19, 2010
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Re: Concerns with professional rebuild

The issue right now became a matter of trust. No matter what they will tell you to debunk your concerns, your inner voice will always second guess it.
You don’t want to find out what truly happened to your boat after you pull it out of their shop and becomes in your possession and your liability. Hire a third party (a marine survivor or another repair man of good reputation) and have him rationally access the true condition of your boat and write a report of what need to get done. Then you need to hold them responsible and accountable for the needed work.
If I were you, I will never trust them with the remaining work. I would have the work done by another shop of good reputation and debt the balance I owe them for their (F)ed up work after it is adjusted, of course, to the true final value of the work delivered. But this is just me.
All repair shops have liability insurance for this reason; of course they would prefer not to file a claim to protect their reputation and premium but this is not your problem and their best interest should not be accomplished on your expense.
Speak with the owner from a strong position; you do have a valid and legitimate claim. A “slight” hook that wasn’t there when you brought the boat to be “fixed” should not be there at all even if they have to redo everything they did to get rid of it. My 2 cents
 
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