Continue repairs or buy new motor?

[RDK]

Hey folks, looking for some feedback.<br /><br />Several months ago, I bought a 14 foot Livingston boat with a 25 HP Evinrude 2 stroke motor for $1,100. Both were made in 1980, and were used for fishing in Puget Sound (as I also use them). As with all "good deals", I soon discovered what I really paid for.<br /><br />After some minor fiberglas repair, paint, etc., the boat is in pretty good shape. The motor, however, is a different matter.<br /><br />First, I noticed a large crack in the transom bracket. I was able to purchase a parts motor of the same model and year for $125, and swapped out the bracket. <br /><br />Then, I noticed evidence of water in the gear oil. I took the lower unit into a shop to be pressure tested, and the mechanic tells me he saw leakage around the driveshaft bushing, the shift bushing, and the prop seals. His estimate for replacing all the bushings and seals is $450.<br /><br />The motor runs pretty good (a little bit of a hard starter, but runs superbly after warmup). However, I've not done any tests of the powerhead, so it's possible that some sort of failure may be pending.<br /><br />So, here's my question. Would I be better off to dump the motor and buy a new (or nearly new) 4 stroke, or should I get the lower unit rebuilt and see how it goes from there? On the one hand, I hate to keep dumping money into it, but on the other hand, if you assume the boat alone is worth $1,100, I'll only have about $600 in the motor, which isn't too bad.<br /><br />Given that nobody can tell the future, I guess the real question is whether or not a 25 year old motor with a rebuilt lower unit (and possible rebuilt power head in the future) should be expected to last long enough to make the investment worthwhile.<br /><br />Any feedback or suggestions appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Russ<br /><br />Bremerton, Washington

 

[biloxiriver]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Fix the foot and as long as the compression is good and it runs cool, run it till it quits. I am still running a 1981 35 hp Johnson that I bought 2 years ago on Ebay for a little over $200, had it shipped in for $125, ran compression checks on the cylinders (checked out good), put in a new water pump and pulled and cleaned the carbs, put her on the boat and and took off. I run it several times a week (it stays on the water here at my house), and, knock on wood, it will continue to run as long as I take care of it. Old age ain't an indicater, care and maintenance is.

 

[JB]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

A 1980 JohnnyRude is not old. Maybe a 1950 is old.<br /><br />Replace the seals and keep her in service.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

RDK.... The cost of $450.00 to correct a seal problem on that small hp lower unit, considering you already have it removed from the engine, seems fairly steep to me.<br /><br />I'd suggest that you drain the unit, install either the drain/fill or the oil level screw, then apply 7 to 12 pounds of air pressure to the other remaining open oil screw hole. That should allow you to find the actual source of the leakage either by sight, sound, or both.<br /><br />At that point, it simply a matter of replacing that seal.... and whatever might be related to it if that related item should also be faulty.<br /><br />Note that applying the steady air pressure can be easily obtained by using a very short piece of rubber hose between the air nozzle and the unit.

 

[Kiekhaeferscurse]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Hi RDK<br />I live just up the road from you in Victoria, and thought I would throw my 2 cents worth in.<br />#1 question to me is, knowing the waters we boat in do you "trust" the boat motor combination you have to get you home in a hurry when the old salty chuck gets ugly?<br /><br />You can of course keep that motor going forever, parts are cheap & plentifull for it.<br /><br />Like Joe says above you can test it yourself, but dont neglect to also do a vacuum test( after all theres double seal's "keep oil in, keep water out)<br />I've nevver been that much of a fan of psi vac tests due to the fact they dont take in account a prop shaft that is spinning at 2500 rpm & a drive shaft thats going around twice as fast. Do a quik test refill the geargase with good oil, install new screw seals, take it out on the lake, have fun for 10 minutes, recheck gear oil.<br />milky.......reseal, like JB says<br /><br /> 450 is a little pricey, but if its an 80 dollar an hour shop & a salt water motor I can see it comming to that.<br /><br />Good luck see you out there fishing.

 

[RDK]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Thanks, guys - this is exactly the sort of information I was hoping to recieve.<br /><br />Regarding the repair cost estimate - the estimate for the seals alone was much less (around $200, as I recall). The higher cost is due to replacement of the shift rod bushing. As my mechanic describes it, replacement of the bushing involves heating the entire lower unit, using an arbor press to push the bushing out, and then inserting a new one. The quote also includes sleeving the driveshaft to address some leakage in that area.<br /><br />In any case, the concensus opinion seems to be that it's not unreasonable to spend the money on this motor, which is what I was hoping I would hear.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />PS: Kiekhaeferscurse, assuming I get the motor running well, I'm planning on taking a road trip up your way this summer for some fishing and camping, probably around Tofino. I keep hearing how much better the fishing is up there, so I have to see for myself.

 

[Kiekhaeferscurse]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Hey RDK<br />Great to hear it & hope you make it up here.<br />You may want to look into going up to Port Hardy or somewhere on the inside passage, if you have the time.<br />Gets rough at Tofino & foggy, pretty small boat, but check your weather. Cant beat Tofino when its nice out.<br />Cheers

 

[CaptainPuget]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

I suggest you check the engine’s compression before fixing the lower end. It is probably worth fixing the lower end if the powerhead is OK. If both need work you are probably better off finding another engine.<br /><br />You should be happy with the Livingston, there’re great boats for our little salt water pond.

 

[silenscurator]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Also, in regards to 4 strokes, i'm not partial to them myself. Could be just the ones i've had contact with, but they are good for pontoons and sailboats. I tried a 15 on my boat, which is the same hp as my 2 stroke and i found it bogged down and didn't have much in the way of get up and go. stick to 2 strokes if you can, but then again, thats just my bias.

 

[OBJ]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

RDK, I've done several of the same type lower units and I've yet had to heat one to get the shift rod bushing out. I made a little puller outta' 1/4" all-thread and ground a 1/4" nut down to fit the bushing hole. Pops them right out. But heat??? Don't think so buddy....

 

[itstippy]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

You have to pull the shift rod bushing to replace the seal under it anyway, don't you? Can't install a lower unit seal kit without replacing the shift rod bushing seal. The guys on this forum walked me through the procedure on my 1967 20HP a few months back (thanks again). <br />Certainly no heat involved; what the mechanic said makes no sense unless the 1980 25HP is a really different animal. <br />See "Gearcase Seal Kit cry for help" under Itstippy.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

On the one hand, I hate to keep dumping money into it

um, i hate to be the one to tell you this...BUT....

 

[itstippy]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

If the compression test on the powerhead turns out OK it's worth it to buy a lower unit seal kit from iBoats and put it in. New impeller too. If you can swap out the transom bracket and you can pull the lower unit to bring it in to be tested you are certainly mechanically inclined enough to install a seal kit and impeller. Cost you an afternoon and $30 or $40. I'd be hesitant to pay $200 to the mechanic you took it to for the job.<br />You do need a manual though. SELOC's will do fine for now. You can buy them online reasonable enough - iBoats probably has them. The OMC manual is the best but they're pricey; they turn up on eBay if you keep watching. Get the SELOC for now because you need it now.<br />You have a parts motor already. If compression is good you may be able to keep that 25HP running indefinately.

 

[RDK]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

I wasn't worried about replacing the water pump and associated seals myself, but I wasn't confident working on the prop shaft seals (gear backlash, etc). Anyway, I stopped by the shop today - the mechanic had the lower unit tore down (too late to do it myself now). He showed me where the drive shaft and prop shafts are pitted and scored (not dramatic, but visible) and recommended that they be "sleeved" so that the new seals will seal properly.<br /><br />I've read lots of posts about lower unit repairs and seals, but I haven't seen anything about problems caused by pitting or scored shafts. What would happen if he just replaced the seals and did nothing else?

 

[itstippy]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

What condition are the shafts on the parts motor you took the transom bracket off?

 

[RDK]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

As luck would have it, the reason it was a parts motor was because the previous owner tore up the lower unit. Prop shaft, gears, etc. are missing and the drive shaft is marginal. So it's not much help for this situation, but if (when) I have trouble with the power head, I'm hopeful it will bail me out.

 

[alcan]

Re: Continue repairs or buy new motor?

Hi RDK<br /> Your mechanic has to stand behind his work. If he just installs new seals to shafts that are worn and pitted it may work, it may not. the job may not last as long as it should and could cause more serious damage later on. The adition of sleeves should solve your problem and should add but little added cost to the job. It has been may expirence that in our area (Puget Sound) the vast majority of marine mechanics are honest and well trained. They get enough business, they don't need to cheet. Parts cost the same no mater where you live. In our area all labor is high and marine tech's , like the rest of us, like to be paid. This is why we do as much of the labor as we can.