Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Kfa4303- Great info, thanks. They actually use to build the AT just down the road near me .... Amsterdam, NY. I think it was there 2nd shop.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Pmccraney- nice boat.....some good ideas from it..... Thanks.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Great find! ......Just picked up 2 free seats for the boat from my neighbor.....traded.....I would help him when he puts barrier bottom on his boat. So I guess I sort of have a color scheme for now.....try to bring back the top sides white gelcoat??? Or repaint white, match the decks in white and do the interior in a light gray with some black splatter. Then go with these red seats and accessories in same red or gray. Have to check out online to see if this same style is still sold ....to buy a third.... Or use a non match as pilots chair and these 2 for fish seats.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

I'm aboard to see this conversion...looks like its gonna be cool...
Just a thought on your seating...great score, BTW...
You could skip the third seat altogether by making the seats re-positionable...when hauling to the fishing spot, they are your helm and pax chairs...when you are ready to fish...just slide them out of the brackets and slip them into your post positions...

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Most of my boat building experience has been with wood epoxy systems as I have restored a few woodys, including my 1956 26' sailboat . I have notice most builders here use poly with all their glass & wood works. Although epoxy is much more expensive I think it is a much stronger bond, more waterproof and gap filling.....and am thinking of using epoxy exclusively oman this fiberglass rebuild.

I noticed with my demo that all of the stringers, wood floor and glass bonds had completely failed and I'm wondering if I go the epoxy route if I will get a much stronger and waterproof construction?

With the epoxy I probably do not need to do layers of cms, instead just coat the wood, apply cloth & epoxy and then paint. I would recoat all existing glass below floor with epoxy , set epoxy coated stringers, tabbing in & wrap over.... Add blue bd foam. The ply deck would get 2 coats of no blush epoxy to underside and edges before setting to stringers - no glass. Ply could be secured with to stringer with glue. After glassine in ply to hull perimeter, the top would get 2 coats of cloth, possibly Dynel for its texture? After sanding & fairing, The top coat of epoxy would be tinted white, then after prep sanding and
primer, apply finish paint.

Does anyone see problems with this approach ? ....Appreciate any input and guidance !

 

[83mulligan]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Fc, some things I learned about epoxy working with my old hull.....And anyone can feel free to correct me, i'm not an expert. It's easy to work with and will stick to anything, however, going forward its not good to try and use poly to glass to the epoxy work. It's very strong but the poly is too if you do it right. A guy on here named OOPS has a monster thread where he extend a boat hull and he did not use epoxy at all. There is all kinds of great stuff in that thread to reference. Also, with that much rot in the deck, stringers etc. you really should core sample the transom. Its frightening how rotten those things can be and still look "not bad" lol. Good luck with this project, I'll be following along to see the transformation.

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Most people go with poly because almost all boat construction (especially early glass boats) were poly. So, for cost reasons and basic compatibility, most folks go with poly.

Its totally a matter of personal choice and budget -- as epoxy will work just fine. However, once you go with epoxy, you have to stay with it (because poly doesn't bond well to epoxy)... So, I think that does eliminate gel coat (poly based) from your finishing choices...

Also, you may want to use 2-part pour-in foam because the foam in many glass boats plays a "structural" role as opposed to simply a flotation role. We tin-boat owners can get away with blue/pink sheets, noodles, etc.., but most glass boat guys opt for the structural properties of pour-in.

All that being said, I tend to prefer epoxy myself. Everyone cites the added expense, but I found that the expense is mitigated by 2 things: Epoxy doesn't have "haz mat" shipping fees associated with it; epoxy goes a very long way (granted, I didn't use cloth, but I sealed alll of the boards on my 17 foot tinny (multiple coats) with only 2 gallons of epoxy vs. 15-20 gallons+ of poly on most glass/poly builds). Also, while safety precautions are still warranted (as some folks have skin reactions to epoxy, and its not advisable to breath it in, I found it to be a lot more "gentle" product to work with)... It doesn't stink, etc... (and its very strong)...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

+1 to all of the above

If you decide to use epoxy, don't get any CSM. It 'needs' the styrene in poly resin to become workable. No need to buy 1708 w/ CSM stitched to the back either, although it's compatible. If you have it, you can use it. But non-CSM biax should be less expensive if you have to buy cloth.

Straight Biax cloth (no mat) is a good choice. Others would also work. Your resin & glass supplier should offer several weights of epoxy compatible cloth.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Thanks guys for the comments on epoxy vs. poly. I have had some experience with both poly and epoxy (much more with epoxy). I really like the ability to vary setup times and the gap filling properties.

I know epoxy bonds well to poly with glass....and not so the other way around.....so I did not plan to use any gelcoat in finish work....I like the paint because for me it's easier to work with and easy to repair.....and hold up well over epoxy sheathed wood. On my sailboat I still have original Brightside with Teflon finish I put on 8 yrs ago and it still looks fine.... A few scrapes and marks from anchor &chain, etc. when I redo all I have to do is fair any gouges, light sand and roll & tip on a fresh coat for another 10 yrs!

The glass work I do on the cap deck would also be epoxy and cloth....and then get painted.

Yes, I am planning to use just cloth with the epoxy.....no cms.

There was no foam at all in this boats floor or gunnels.....so unless there is some in the bow area (none directly under deck itself), it has no foam??? The stringers are only about 1" above the hull....so at best I was planning to lay in 1" blue board sheets cut to fit, and then multi layer 2" up in the very front of bow....it would be more than original!!!

I will set the deck over the stringers with poly glue and a few SS screws to provide the clamping during cure time.

I will check the transom with quite a few cores.....as one technique I have use to successfully restore wood boats was to drill many holes into wood, inject epoxy resin with needle applicator to fully saturate the punky wood and then build off it. I already drilled a few spots and haven't seen anything to bad yet.

I'm trying not to take the cap off the boat, as it is still well connected and the rub rail is fine - all well anchored and only 2 spots where rubber has dings......???? I must however remove forward bulkhead to continue work on stringers as the run up toward bow.....so Verdict still out on this though.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Due to the conversion you are proposing to do on this hull, I agree with your decision to use epoxy. I think a 8 1/2 oz E-Glass would be ideal for this project and a 17 oz biaxial for the transom. That's how I would proceed anyway.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Working a couple hrs this afternoon digging out the buried stringer/stiffeners that run to transom. Mostly zip saw top cuts and then hand chisel out to avoid getting into hull material to deep. The hull has profile that accepts the rounded bottom shape of these stringers, running stern to bow. You can see the last foot or so which was pulled out from under transom.

Questions ? ...... I see details on the Forum where builders are setting the stringers into pl glue with spacers so as not to have a hard joint to the hull. Is that to avoid stress cracking on the hull? These stringers appeared to be just set in poly resin with just the glass wrap over.....as the water had deteriorated any bond to hull....but initially they must have been resin bonded with hard contact to the hull ? I'm wondering if I should be bonding the stringer by just setting in epoxy PB for a structural bond to the fiberglass hull ribs running the length of the boat?

Next I need to decide on how to get the old stringers out of the bow....as they run up under the bulkhead and further to the bow.....guess its time to cut my deck open.....but first more straps & some hard bracing??? No, first some hard earned coffee!

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Thanks Woodonglass, that helps me immensely.....trying to sort everything out & steer a course that does not get me into trouble!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

The PL is an alternate to bedding the stringers in resin. PL takes 72hrs +/- to cure & off-gas. May or may not fit your timeline. Of course depending on the speed of epoxy you use, there may be a day or 2 wait using epoxy.

While the bedding cures, you want to make sure the stringers don't move.

Click the link in WOG's signature & look thru his graphic for stringers, transom & deck. Although you'll use epoxy, the layout & design system for those components won't change drastically. Just modified for epoxy & no CSM/1708.

 

[Gator1996]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

The best place to look for this type of build is microskiff.com there are a ton of flat skiff rebuilds and ground up builds/kits in the "bragging spot" section. Some of those guys do finish work that you will not believe. Good luck.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Thanks Jbcurt00.

Ok, finally decided to do a rough wash on the hull & topside so I can be sure if I can go the "Repair Gelcoat & polish" fix....For my time schedule this would be best. ....There was too much mud and debris on her to be sure, but now I can see it clear!

Well, it looks very good! The hull has the usual gouges and scrapes from bad rollers and use, but all fixable with gelcoat repair....and since its below waterline I can have a little slack with perfect finish if my time gets tight. There doesn't seem to be much of any crazing or hairline cracks anywhere other that spots around the transom....hum ????

The topsides look fantastic for the age & where she's been for the last 16 yrs (sitting in a field in ny)! The transom finish is rough & I'm still not resolved as to rip out or restore yet..... but I could refinish the outer gelcoat with new finish either way .....probably do in light gray tp match interior if I can't match up the gelcoat???

The rub rail is very good and the joint did not leak with hose spray full force cleaning out debris and from bottom up. Only one rough spot....which I could live with ....and maybe repair? So I'm going to try to keep the cap on, even though I'm cutting out large area of deck.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Tomorrow I would like to get the following done:

1. Build cradle to support and brace the boat - level boat and record critical hull dimension for future reference
2. Cut deck out at bow ...to the new reduced deck area.
3. Remove bulkhead & floor at bow to access remaining section of stringers & remove them.

This would be a good day.....and all major demo work would be done......leaving grinding down residual glass around stringer pockets, etc. and a good once over the entire hull interior with the grinder....and what to do with the transom!

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

All complete with the cradle build & shims....used a bunch of scrap lumber.....boat is level and true and should stay that way now! Time to rip out the deck!

It's a beautiful day, my other boat is tied up at the dock & my dog wants to go swimming....hard to stay focused on the build right now!

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Ok....the deck at the bow is out!

Next I need to remove the forward bulkhead and platform that was under the deck.....then I can access the remainder of the stringers that run up in there. I will be building a new lower bow platform with bulkhead for forward fishing seat and storage or live well under.

...... No foam in this boat ??? Ripped the forward bulkhead & platform and found no foam.....just muck & mud!

So next is grinding all the stringer & bulkhead tabs back to hull......

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

Flotation foam wasn't REQUIRED when this boat was made (50/60's) some makers adopted it early, but not all. I suspect that the forward chamber you removed today was a sealed compartment that may have been for flotation.

It may have given the hull sides some structural rigidity (to minimize hull flex) so you may need to consider adding back some sort of support to the hull as it approaches the bow keel:

Not sure where you'll locate the forward deck, but it may be sufficient support.

You can certainly add flotation foam when you start putting it back together as a flat's boat.

 

[Fcdave]

Re: Convert 14' runabout into fishing boat for the SW FL flats

I'm planning to do a fairly large platform in the bow....about 17" off the floor... good for sitting ....so it should add a stiffener all along the mid point....also there will be a couple bulkheads to form front and back of storage areas.....the remaining side areas and triangle at bow can get foamed. The existing did have a drain hole so it wasn't sealed....but probably would creat an air pocket for some buoyancy. If I need more stiffening I can add some gussets along the gunnels to coincide with bulkheads??

I will add foam wherever I can. There's only room for 1" or 3/4" foam under the floors and then I can also add some at rear platform similar to bow.