Converting to pre mix. Help Please

[cdnfthree2]

MOD: J150 GLEIS 1991 I'm just a cadet, have posted 3 other topics to no avail, but I really could use a response to this one, PLEASE. I am removing the Oil Pick Up from my VRO pump and going to pre mix. I know oil is to mixed 50:1. However, I am unsure as to how much gas is currently in the 35 gallon tank other than seeing that the gauge reads half a tank. It would be really difficult to siphon all the gas out of the hull. My question: Will I hurt the engine if I mix the oil a little heavy the first time just to ensure I get enough oil? Should I assume that there is about 19 gallons in it? Where do I go from here? Thanks, Carter

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

If you feel the gauge is accurate, then mix according to the assumed amount left. I would put 2 quarts in to be on the safe side. Any chance you can remove the fuel gauge sender on the tank and take a look to verify the amount left?

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

There is a round cap between the two helm seats that pops off. Just wires. I think that is what your talking about. I gues I could remove the entire bolt down area behind the console. It's about 5' x 3'. I bet that's where the tanks is located right? The boat is a 1985 Liberty, but I left that out because I have found Zero info on that make on the internet. I guess it wasn't popular. Pretty rough water boat though. Thanks for you help Rick.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Hate to state the obvious but why dont you fill it up and put in enough oil for the tank capacity ?????
Once you have done this disconnect the fuel line and prime out the unmixed gas into a container till you see the premix coming through. Put the gas from the container into the car (it will do no harm) and off you go. I put a little 2 stroke oil into each cylinder as well when I did mine. Smoked like crazy at initial start up but no issue with the conversion.
Always wise to add a little extra if uncertain. More oil smokes.......not enough oil screws up your motor !!!!
Good Luck and let us all know.

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Perfect. Thanks. A little extra then. I was concerned because I have no earthly idea how big the tank actually is. Only that it was on empty when I purchased it and it took 32.8 gallons to fill it up. So I figured 35 gallons.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

that is why removing the sending unit will do you no good. you say nothing about the boat, so we can't take a guess of the tank capacity, or direct you in the right direction to find out. you very well may be able to make one phone call, and have the info you need.

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

I'll try to find more out about the boat and post a picture too. Still waiting on title though.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Not really sure why you're going to all the trouble to remove the oil tank pick up but you can leave that alone. Just unplug the oil line from the motor and plug the oil inlet line going to the pump. Either at the pan where the line comes in (inside or out) or right at the pump. Then unplug the wiring harness on the pump itself.

Personally I think it's a mistake to remove the oil injection but that's up to you.

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Thanks. I only consider moving to premix because every part dealer/mechanic that I've tried to buy the VRO pickup unit from(My float is broken inside reservoir) says that Johnsons horrible VRO system keeps them in business, and that if I were smart I'd mix my own and buy amsoil from them. I can get a new VRO pick up for $68. Believe me, I'd rather not have to mix my own, but there are alot of people who claim that when early model VROs fail the alarm often doesn't sound. That scares me.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

That just shows how much mis-information is in the dealer network. Most dealers blame every engine failure on the VRO pump. Most think all oil injection pumps are VROs, which they are not. I dare them to show me a motor that's been damaged by a faulty oil injection pump. They won't take the dare because they can't produce one.

Your motor was produced with a VRO2, the newest pump is an OMS pump which is arguably the best pump & system on the market today. The OMC / BRP system cannot - it's impossible - pick on a single cylinder. If any one cylinder is getting oil, then the pump is working and something else caused the issue.

Personally I wouldn't have an outboard without oil injection.

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

I just want to repeat what Dhadley said: after everything I've read about the VRO2 and OMS pumps, they are extremely reliable and straight forward to care for. They have a good, reliable system of alarms for malfunction. I have the personal belief - after premixing for years - that it's probably more likely that a person will damage an engine due to premixing error (like forgetting or putting in too little oil) rather than the pump failure. The VRO2 pump that you (and I) have is considered an excellent pump and has the complete set of alarms for low oil, no oil, overheat and fuel restriction. The OMS pump is the latest version and differs mainly in the ratio of oil at low speed.

Read this, it is excellent and might dispel some of your fears:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

As for premixing: if you decide to do this, you have done the best thing possible for figuring out the capacity of your tank, better than boat information and capacity specs: you filled and empty tank! If you filled the tank when empty, and it took 32 gallons, that is the capacity, period! If you decide to premix, put in 2.5 quarts (edited!) of oil, fill tank to capacity and have 32 gallons of 50:1 premix.

As for the inner workings of your tank: Go to www.brp.com and look up the parts for your engine. Buy them yourself and install. Or buy a whole new tank. You just need to make sure you have the right tank for the wiring of your VRO2 pump. They are often available new on ebay. The only trick to installing a new tank - or cleaning and refilling your existing tank - is to prime the oil line, and that's dead easy.

Good luck!

 

[karlow1]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

You will find them on Ebay as well.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

I agree with the oil mix pump being the best thing however the price made my mind up. I was quoted $508 and a 2 day delivery at the nearest dealer when my pump started failing on the first day of our vacation. A premix pump was either $56 for an aftermarket or $82 for the OMC version and available immediately off the shelf. We were back boating within a couple of hours.
I am now in the premix club !!!!

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Well, first of all, thanks for all the advice. I read the article dajohnson53 suggested. I think that knowing pre mix is an option is comforting. I don't need to worry too much till next Thursday when my propeller gets back from repair. In the meantime I do believe I will order the new VRO pickup unit, install, and prime. I'll just keep an eye on usage. Thanks again for all the help with this.

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Well, first of all, thanks for all the advice. I read the article dajohnson53 suggested. I think that knowing pre mix is an option is comforting. I don't need to worry too much till next Thursday when my propeller gets back from repair. In the meantime I do believe I will order the new VRO pickup unit, install, and prime. I'll just keep an eye on usage. Thanks again for all the help with this.

My oil tank is semi-transparent (I think they all are). It's easy to see the level. First time I filled it, I made little hash marks at each quart interval. I kind of keep track that it's using oil. Plus, I know my low oil and no oil alarms work because I tested them. Low oil alarm went off when oil in tank went below about 1/4 full. No oil went off after tank emptied (I was running pre-mix at the time so there was no harm). Maybe I'm a dreamer, but it seems to me that these alarms are pretty fool proof. I never worry about the idiot lights failing in my cars and I've never been burned in 40 years and many cars.

 

[Philthyphil]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

I might be hyjacking this thread a bit but here goes. Does anyone make a replacement VRO 2 pump like I have on my 87 90hp? I would like to keep oil injection, it's on my three sleds right now, but is there any aftermarket pump for a reasonable price? I'm used being able to get rebuilt or aftermarket good stuff for most cars at fair prices. A new VRO pump is five times what a fuel pump is for my 67 Sunbeam Tiger for cripes sake. Mine is still ok but after what happened to Kenmyfam when he was up at my lake last time I wonder. If it crapped out on a long weekend on the fuel side I'd be outta luck. Oil side I'd just throw in a bunch of expensive syn oil from my dirt bikes... lol. Would it be worth keeping a fuel pump from an 88hp the same year just for a spare? their only 60 bucks of so. What do the PWC use for oil injection pumps? Are they just ones like on a sled? I would think so it's just a snowmobile engine spinning a pump I reckon. Those pumps last forever, even my old 1980 340 Yamaha had a little gear drive oil injection system.Come to think of it my old 76 Yamaha ty 175 had oil injection too. Sorry rambling, but the injection is very convenient.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Neither the VRO or VRO2 pumps are produced anymore. All carb'd oil injection pumps are OMS pumps. You can replace an injection pump on V4 crossflows and lower hp motors with a single "old style" fuel pump. The commercial V4 loopers that had the old style pumps had 2 hooked in series. 1 may not supply enough fuel at high rpms which might result in piston damage. V6 crossflows can use 2 standard pumps in series. No V6 looper was ever produced with the old style pumps and it would be doubtful if they could supply the required ammount of fuel at high rpm. They did however make commercial V6 loopers with a "fuel-only" pump. It looks like the injection pump without the oil side.

 

[Philthyphil]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

I have a 1987 90hp v4. As to being a"looper" or a "crossflow" I don't know which it is, I guess if I saw a piston I would know. Did some searching on the site and what you call a "looper" is the only kind of 2 stroke I have every worked on going back to my first dirt bike days in the 60's. I still ride and race but what you call a "crossflow" looks like the old pre war 2 strokes before the Germans came up with piston ports and expansion chambers and reed valves etc. Mind you I do have a 1980 SWM 320 trials bike that has a rotary valve 2 stroke. Actually its a Rotax engine like in a Can-Am....lol.....BRP And my sled is a semi direct injection 2 stroke.....BRP again just by coincidence. Anyway, if my orginial pump bites the dust can I get one like it and keep oil injection or do I have to go to premix? I did another search and according to Tashasdaddy a pump for a 88hp made the same year would work.Thats a fuel pump assy # 0398387 for an 87 88hp motor.....cheers

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Yep, you motor is a crossflow. You can use a single old style fuel pump, no problem.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Converting to pre mix. Help Please

Neither the VRO or VRO2 pumps are produced anymore. All carb'd oil injection pumps are OMS pumps. You can replace an injection pump on V4 crossflows and lower hp motors with a single "old style" fuel pump. The commercial V4 loopers that had the old style pumps had 2 hooked in series. 1 may not supply enough fuel at high rpms which might result in piston damage. V6 crossflows can use 2 standard pumps in series. No V6 looper was ever produced with the old style pumps and it would be doubtful if they could supply the required ammount of fuel at high rpm. They did however make commercial V6 loopers with a "fuel-only" pump. It looks like the injection pump without the oil side.

Does that mean that my 1985 looper with its "new" 1982 pre-mix pump is wrong ???? It is running like a champ. One other note is if it is not getting enough fuel then surely it would not reach it's normal max rpm ???
Or am I missing something ???