Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

[KirbyE]

I have been away for a while , so please excuse me if I am beating a dead horse, but I have a few ideas and questions.
My 1959 35 hp Johnson has run super since the day it was new (my dad has the original reciept, $400 in 1960 BTW). It's mine now (I'm 41) and I take very good care of it. This past weekend it suddenly "poured gas out of the vent" RE: needle valve not closing. Here's the kicker: The reason was not that it "sank", but that it was stuck against the bowl wall ! You can only imagine the back and forth I went through to discover this. Anyway, I sanded the cork float all around the perimiter with like 80 grit, which pretty much wrecks the varinsh seal, blew it off, and we now run 100% again for the rest of the weekend. Here are my questions:
1. I have to assume without the varnish it will sink. What simple product should I use to re-seal it? Hopefully a Home Depot type thing. I don't build model airplanes, but I have heard there are CA's that are good.
2. The part is 375792, available from BRP for $11, but when I called Crowley's the guy had it in his hand and said it's also cork, brand new. Is there a supersede # with a poly float? I have read here that there is one for the smaller engines this vintage. Is there another supplier who offers poly? (Sierra?)
3. Has anyone else ever had a similar problem with the 'geometry' of the float? This one kind of blows my mind. I have a master's in engineering. I'm not making this stuff up.
4. Should I (we) start a business selling poly floats for vintage engines and get rich with Al Gore?

This machine has been awesome for 50 years. Now all of a sudden the cork doesn't fit free in the bowl. What else could have caused this aside from the alcohol in the gas dissolving the varnish and distorting the float? Visual inspection shows no problems with the crimp on brass lever or anything else suspicious. Needle valve and seat are reletively new, and work fine. We could easily take a ride down a political vein here with fuels too, but I will keep that for another day. I just want to know this will not leave me stranded again. I don't want to put in a new cork float and have it do the same thing. My parents waterskied the heck out of this in the day, but now this boat lives in a barn in VT and gets used maybe 4 weekends a year. If I have to change this thing every 50 years or so it will become tiresome !! ;-)

Thanks for all the wonderful input. I love this site / forum !!!

 

[ryendube]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

I have been away for a while , so please excuse me if I am beating a dead horse, but I have a few ideas and questions.
My 1959 35 hp Johnson has run super since the day it was new (my dad has the original reciept, $400 in 1960 BTW). It's mine now (I'm 41) and I take very good care of it. This past weekend it suddenly "poured gas out of the vent" RE: needle valve not closing. Here's the kicker: The reason was not that it "sank", but that it was stuck against the bowl wall ! You can only imagine the back and forth I went through to discover this. Anyway, I sanded the cork float all around the perimiter with like 80 grit, which pretty much wrecks the varinsh seal, blew it off, and we now run 100% again for the rest of the weekend. Here are my questions:
1. I have to assume without the varnish it will sink. What simple product should I use to re-seal it? Hopefully a Home Depot type thing. I don't build model airplanes, but I have heard there are CA's that are good.
2. The part is 375792, available from BRP for $11, but when I called Crowley's the guy had it in his hand and said it's also cork, brand new. Is there a supersede # with a poly float? I have read here that there is one for the smaller engines this vintage. Is there another supplier who offers poly? (Sierra?)
3. Has anyone else ever had a similar problem with the 'geometry' of the float? This one kind of blows my mind. I have a master's in engineering. I'm not making this stuff up.
4. Should I (we) start a business selling poly floats for vintage engines and get rich with Al Gore?

This machine has been awesome for 50 years. Now all of a sudden the cork doesn't fit free in the bowl. What else could have caused this aside from the alcohol in the gas dissolving the varnish and distorting the float? Visual inspection shows no problems with the crimp on brass lever or anything else suspicious. Needle valve and seat are reletively new, and work fine. We could easily take a ride down a political vein here with fuels too, but I will keep that for another day. I just want to know this will not leave me stranded again. I don't want to put in a new cork float and have it do the same thing. My parents waterskied the heck out of this in the day, but now this boat lives in a barn in VT and gets used maybe 4 weekends a year. If I have to change this thing every 50 years or so it will become tiresome !! ;-)

Thanks for all the wonderful input. I love this site / forum !!!

yes cork floats will fail, varnish gets eatin away and cork saturates, had same prob as im sure 100's other have. Every johnson dealer i have dealt with said no they do not make a factory plastic one, but you can find a plastic one that will be close and work. for me i went with cork again its like 9$ takes like 15mins to change start to finish, as you know already. get another cork one. dam be like me and buy 2 i keep it in my boat tool box along with 2 wrenches a screw driver and pliers cause thats all you need to fix these motors . Not leaving gas in the carb when its stored will eliminate this problem pretty much.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Huh. My local OMC dealer had a plastic one for a '58 10hp, I would have assumed they had one for an 18 also.

 

[ryendube]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Huh. My local OMC dealer had a plastic one for a '58 10hp, I would have assumed they had one for an 18 also.

was it an actual omc part? I argued with several dealers and was told im an idiot after several people said plastic was avaliable. All the dealers told me exactly what I said above, they can find a replacement one but not for that exact motor meaning they didnt switch over, the float for those carbs are still cork

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

As far as I know it was but I never actually verified that other than the fact that I bought it an an OMC dealer... (here in Canada)

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

I re-coat mine with Aero Gloss fuel proof dope from the hobby store:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXAU61&P=8

I haven't had any issues with it dissolving, but I also run the fuel out of the engine (single carb only) after use. I initially tested it by coating a float (2 coats), letting it dry for 24 hrs, and floating it in premix (10% ethanol) for 48 hours. I noticed no degradation of the coating.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

You can also seal them with tin coating of super glue.

 

[KirbyE]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Thanks for the input.
Are you all really sure about the dope? Is there a product specific for this?
OBTW I added a starter motor, so it's a hassle to get the carb off. I need to remove the starter motor first, so it feels like more than 15 min.
Does it make any sense that it would swell?
Thanks.

 

[ryendube]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Thanks for the input.
Are you all really sure about the dope? Is there a product specific for this?
OBTW I added a starter motor, so it's a hassle to get the carb off. I need to remove the starter motor first, so it feels like more than 15 min.
Does it make any sense that it would swell?
Thanks.

umm never seen, but then again not many things I have worked on use cork floats. Meh starter is 3 extra bolts, id be more concerned about what you use adding weight to the float making it not as bouyant, messing up the setting. Then again I have no experience coating a float.

 

[wbeaton]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

BRP still includes cork floats in some kits. I recently had a carb kit for a 1964 40 hp come with a cork float. I believe the carb kits I've bought for 25 hp Big Twins came with plastic floats.

That's as much help as I can be on that topic since I don't buy carb kits much any more. Instead, I just dry and re-coat old floats with polyeurathane (varnish), which is fuel resistant. I haven't had any trouble, yet. I also put a newly coated float into a jar of pre-mixed (24:1) ethanol fuel as part of some testing I'm doing. After nearly a month I have yet to see any problems with the varnish or float.

Running the carb dry would negate the need to worry about it.

 

[F_R]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Kirby, you say you're an engineer? Good. Maybe you can research this and let us know. I wonder if this float can be adapted to work. Either that or maybe use the material along with the old float arm?
http://www.iboats.com/Johnson_Carbu...9084839--**********.230410574--view_id.271386

 

[KirbyE]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Now we're talking!
Who can tell me the geometry of this one? Looks like it fits the newer machines, similar HP. I have never seen one of those up close. I may buy one just to see it, and prove I can make it work! Wost case I have to cut the arm and solder the old one on. I love it! Stand by for updates.
Thanks.

 

[KirbyE]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

Results are in:
I bought one each of the cork BRP/OMC 375792 and the Sierra 18-7210. The floats are nearly identical in geometry, but the size and location of the lever are not. I have tried to include images, we will see if I have sucess. I cut the lever off an old OMC cork float and cut and bent the lever on the Sierra. I then soldered the two together using care to get the alignment correct, and not melt the black plastic float. A wet towel keeps it cool, and with flux the solder flowed very well. I'm very confident in the joint, but I guess it would suck if it broke.
When I tried to run it it fired immediately, and purred. I have not run it out of the barrel yet, but it seems it will not require more than a "high speed" mixture tune. I call this a success all the way around.
I also found that a clever screwdriver arrangement with socket wrenches allows me to remove the float bowl without removing the carb. (thanks ryendube). I replaced the slotted #10-24 x 5/8 with stainless socket heads. Now it's easier to install using an allen wrench (they are "black oxide" stainless BTW). I think I will keep the new cork OMC float in the "toolkit" on board with the plug wrench, allen wrench, etc. just in case.
Does anyone think I should install an additional fuel filter right before the carb to grab whatever falls out of the lines / pump?
I will check back after I have hit WOT. Maybe tonight.
Thanks again.

 

[KirbyE]

Re: Cork Float, Alcohol in Gas? '59 35 hp

As predicted, she's back in business. I would say 98-99% of "perfect" running after enriching both needle valves about 3/16-1/4 turn. Any lack of performance now is splitting hairs, probably from breaker points, which I seem to have to tune often (20 hrs ?). Looks like I'm good for another 50 years. Thanks again.

** Bump **