Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

rndcomp

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OK, here we go. First, I am not a mechanic, not even close.

The beginning of the story goes like this, I bought a boat sight unseen. I took it out on the water and without knowing it, had a FWC coolant loss as a result of a bad front cam seal. This led to an overheated engine, which is where I am today.

The engine is an '87 Merc 170 and I believe I have water in the oil. I say this because I recently put fresh oil in, and when I checked it today, it was much darker then expected. I would assume that this is what they refer to as "chocolate milk".

To add to the story, I tried to pull all the plugs to see if the cylinders are wet and to do a compression check. Well, I could only get 1,2,and 3 removed, and 4 was not even thinking about coming out. (The numbering assumes that #1 is towards the bow and #4 is towards the stern). 1 and 2 splugs looked OK. #3 was wet, so I assume that there is some liquid (most likely water) in the cylinder. I will try to get the number 4 plug out soon and run a compression test. I first need to remove the coolant reservoir so that I can get the necessary leverage.

Here is what I need to know. Am I most likely facing a cracked block situation or a blown head gasket? If you can not tell with the information that I have, is there an easy way to find out. I am assuming that a cracked block is much worse and much more expensive that a head gasket (but you might need to confirm this for me).

How bad is this? Should I plan on scrapping the boat? What are my next steps, besides panic and deep rooted depression?

Thanks in advance, and if you need more details, please ask.

Thanks!
 

JoChek219

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

those 470's don't usually do well during an overheat... with the aluminum bloack and cast iron head.... hopefully you didn't do too much damage but doesn't sound it.... hopefully some of the other guys will be here to chime in with some thoughts and suggestions.....

this is an example of why you can't buy a boat unseen or w/o a testdrive.. I know that doesn't help but maybe for furture references
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

I did learn my lesson, but the price was too good. I figured that I should be able to part the boat out and actually make more than I paid for it. We will have to see.

Live and Learn!

PS - If it matters, the boat did run great the one day that I had it out. I guess it wasn't a total loss. My wife is now convinced she wants a boat, and even if I have to get another one, I was at least able to get the 'boating bug' to bite her.
 

bjcsc

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Don't give up hope yet. Darker oil is not "chocolate milk". When you have water in your oil it looks just like a chocolate milk shake, light brown and all. Is that what you've got?
 

JoChek219

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

I have an 87 165 and I know why I was able to get it soo cheap now!! but hopefully you didn't do too much internal damage or else the parts won't be worth too much
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

No, it's not really a light brown, it is more like oil that has been used for a while. A darker color, not really brown. What is odd is that I had only minimal oil in the engine when I filled it up, but now that I think about it, maybe I am just seeing the older oil mixing with the new oil.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

My money is on a cracked cooling manifold.

Before you scrap anything...........

Pull the cooling manifold and pull all your plugs. With the coil wire off the distributor crank the engine and check your compression. Use ONLY a screw in tester .......

Cross one bridge at a time.

The 3.0L is just about a direct replacement for the 470 and you can use the same outdrive and gearing.
 

JoChek219

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

i'm not sure about the 3.0L ..... not sure if the mounts and exhaust is the same or not... I've heard alot of people got rid of these motors and put in a 4.3 V-6, which I might be doing as my camshaft seals need replacing...dripping weep hole... either way there is some work involved
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Thanks for the information.

Just to clarify, the cooling manifold is located directly below the coolant reservoir? Right? Also, if I have electronic ignition, do I only need to disconnect the wires, or, do I still need to pull the coil wire off?

Thanks, if nothing else, you have given me hope!
 

bjcsc

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Yes, it's a safety issue.
 

bjcsc

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Bob's right. Take a deep breath, check your compression, and report back.
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

i'm not sure about the 3.0L ..... not sure if the mounts and exhaust is the same or not... I've heard alot of people got rid of these motors and put in a 4.3 V-6, which I might be doing as my camshaft seals need replacing...dripping weep hole... either way there is some work involved


To clarify, you are considering installing a new engine just because of a leaking front cam seal. This shouldn't be more than a couple of hundred dollars for mechanic to fix, less if you do it yourself. Am I missing something?
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Bob's right. Take a deep breath, check your compression, and report back.

I will check compression tomorrow night and let you know. It is pouring down rain here right now and I am guessing that I might not need any more water on the engine.

Thanks for the help, I will post more tomorrow.
 

JoChek219

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

im' thinking about upgrading to the 4.3 b/c the 470 is one of the worst designed motors ever built for a marine application or maybe i'll just unload this piece of ..... on somebody else and buy a different boat with a v6
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Is the exhaust manifold and the cooling manifold the same thing? If not, where is the cooling manifold located?

Thanks!
 

bjcsc

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Negative. The cooling manifold is the exchanger (your initial post stated you are freshwater cooled (FWC), i.e. closed system with antifreeze). It should be pretty obvious.
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

Yes, I am fresh water cooled. So the cooling manifold and the 4" heat exchanger are the same thing. Got it!
 

rndcomp

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

OK, here is more information. I can not do the compression test yet because my new alternator is causing my battery to spark (there is another posting asking about this). Anyway, in order to get my #4 plug out (the one towards the stern of the boat), I had to remove the coolant reservoir (is this also called the riser??). While doing this I had to disconnect some of the hoses going to the heat exchanger. When I pulled one of the FWC lines off the heat exchanger (the one towards the bow of the boat) I noticed that the coolant had a brown color to it. There was definately coolant there, but it was brownish. Also, when I looked into the exhaust manifold, I saw no signs of water, only a fine carbon dust, which I assume is normal.

I am hoping that this will help provide some clues as to what is up with my engine. As soon as my battery stops sparking on me I will do the compression test.

Thanks again for all of the help!
 

bjcsc

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Re: Cracked Block - or - Blown Head Gasket

The good news is you're getting into it, and hopefully enjoying the learning experience even though it is work :). The bad news is none of what you have discovered really means (or points) to anything yet. The brownish color is probably just suspended rust, and black dust (carbon) is what should be in there.

Your exchanger is essentially your riser, although I do not know if it's technically ever called that.
 
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