Damaged Hull -- Pictures

[Peter9Do]

So, I spent all day on Sunday power washing and buffing my new (old) boat I got that dull chalky looking paint to come alive! it really was a beautiful thing to be able to see the reflection of the motor in the paint. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I still just need another round with the buffer, then to really make it pop I will apply a little wax and a finishing polish and it should almost be mirror like... Well all of this was running in my mind when I went to bed Sunday night with my arms hurting from swinging that buffer for 4 straight hours. I wake up and go outside with my morning cup of coffee to admire my work and to my surprise dead center (length and width) of the boat there is a rather large puddle. So, I do a reverse flip with my coffee in hand and land on my back without spilling a drop of my fresh brew (the flip part really didn't happen) to uncover a nice 3" crack in the hull. I noticed that all the weight of the boat is really sitting on the middle roller of the trailer, seeing the trailer is all types of jacked up! So, I took the best pictures I could with my phone, I assuming that I can either 1. Just patch it up, 2. blow the entire boat up, or 3. cut a larger hole in the section when the crack is and the patch that larger cleaner hole. Well, seeing that I'm new to all this I would really like to spend some time reading your feedback so please, please, please, please give me a few moments of your time and give me a little help, confidence, ideas or hell just tell me a story! I thank you in advanced for your help! Please see attached photos below:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Perhaps a little more background on when & how you acquired this beauty would be helpful. . .

What you seem to have is a hull fracture. Some further inspection would be able to tell you if it is a new fracture or has been there for a while. As you noted it is probably due to the fact that much of the weight was being carried on one spot while on the trailer. this sort of thing can happen during transport, as the road bumps, etc will cause the boat to bounce.

Fixing it will be really 'fun' . . .

It would be good to determine what things look like on the inside and how accessible it is, etc. You will be fixing it from both sides. So, see what you can find out about the inside, post some more pictures and historical background of the boat, etc. brand model, etc.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Show us an overall picture of the boat on the trailer, Hard to get a read on one roller.

LK

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Welcome to the dry dock Peter9Do,

Like has been mentioned, we need more info and pics...some more overall pics of the boat and some background, if you have any access to the interior of the damaged area and can snap some flash pics, that could help...

Fortunately, with the knowledge base available here on the Iboats forum, anything boat related can be fixed...

Regards,
GT1M

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Okay as for a little history on the boat, I really can't account for the majority of the life of this thing. She is a 1978 MFG Gypsy 15. I'm the 3rd owner (I believe) The boat has been well maintained until the 2nd owner bought it in 2009 and then it was basically neglected. It has sat now for the last year and a half close to two years. I live in Buffalo, NY and the boat has been stored outside on it's trailer in changing weather from hot summers to cold cold cold winters. Now, the trailer is damaged as well the wooden pieces for each side of the bottom, one side is rotted and not supporting any weight of the boat. The crack looks to be somewhat old. I loosened up the front pulley to relieve some of the pressure from the hull and the area where the crack is. I'm going to assume that this trailer has been damaged for a while and the last owner did nothing about it and would drive the boat around, which caused the crack in the hull by the boat bouncing and the weight being centered on the middle roller.

As for pictures what are you looking for? If you guys can give me an idea of what you need to see, I can try my best as to getting the pictures for you. I work 2nd shift so I will either have to post them before I go to work or when I get home at 12:30pm EST.

Also, let me thank you all of you guys for posting on this thread. My frustration level is through the roof at this point. I have the entire winter to work on this boat as it's sitting in my garage. I was just really hoping that I didn't have a bunch of issues with it like this. Seeing that this is my first boat I really didn't know what to look for when trying to judge the condition (I know now!!!!!) From what you guys are saying it needs to be patched on both sides I will have to cut through the fiberglass/plywood floor to repair this properly. I was in the air on replacing the floor anyways so, maybe I can just kill 2 birds with one stone. Please let me know what I should do from here and what pictures you guys will need. Again, thank you very much for all your help!

Thanks again,
Peter

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

As I stated previously the boat is in my garage so getting a full image of it on the trailer is going to be hard. This is what I was able to do. Let me know if this helps or again, as I said if you want to see something more please let me know what I can take a picture of to help assist your diagnosis and better help you help me... Please see attached photos below:



That first roller on the frame is the area where the damage is.

What do you think is the best way to remove the boat from the trailer so I can repair the trailer and the boat? I was thinking of making a bracket out of wood to support the weight of the boat. I would remove the engine first of course. But how do you go about removing the boat while being able to pull the trailer out at the same time? Sorry for all the questions, my head is going in 100 directions and I'm just rambling out ideas because I have no clue what I'm doing!

Thanks again,
Peter

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Some pictures from above the crack too would help. The hull should not have done that at the keel. I suspect that there is/was a keel board inside that might be rotted out allowing the hull to crack like that. Maybe not, I hope not, but it is an old boat, nice but old. Your gonna have to remove the deck to get to that area from the inside. Then you'll find out whats really going on. Good luck.

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Some pictures from above the crack too would help. The hull should not have done that at the keel. I suspect that there is/was a keel board inside that might be rotted out allowing the hull to crack like that. Maybe not, I hope not, but it is an old boat, nice but old. Your gonna have to remove the deck to get to that area from the inside. Then you'll find out whats really going on. Good luck.

Ouch! Thanks for the truth that I wasn't ready to hear...

 

[a1964rn]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Hello and welcome to iboats! It looks like your missing some center bunks on that trailer. Is that the original trailer for the boat? Looks like someone took the center bunks off and mounted that platform, but I could be wrong. I would also advise you to plan for the worst, and hope for the best. If it's been sitting out for a couple of years, you more than likely have a bunch of rotten wood inside of it.
There are some threads on here where people have restored that same model of boat. One of them looks like the same color. You can get some good information by looking at those threads.
Good Luck!

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

What ever caused it. Oversized / badly adjusted roller & a big road bump ?

It needs a repair first........Get lots of FREE estimates / advise. Before doing anything.

It looks old.

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Hello and welcome to iboats! It looks like your missing some center bunks on that trailer. Is that the original trailer for the boat? Looks like someone took the center bunks off and mounted that platform, but I could be wrong. I would also advise you to plan for the worst, and hope for the best. If it's been sitting out for a couple of years, you more than likely have a bunch of rotten wood inside of it.
There are some threads on here where people have restored that same model of boat. One of them looks like the same color. You can get some good information by looking at those threads.
Good Luck!

Yes, that's TallCanadian, I have been in contact with him and he has given me some good tips. I have a lot of research to do along with a lot of work. I'm going to tear down the floor this weekend. See what I have under it all.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

judging by the pictures its going to be a tough fix especially as its angled in so many ways.
the trailer is the cause of the problem and if you installed transom straps and then tightened the bow strap that looks slightly to low you could put a massive force on the hull that was already weak from rot ending up with the roller busting the glass. if i was looking at repairing that amount of damadge i would consider fliping the boat over then bondo the cracks and smooth them out then make a mould over the bad section. remove the mould then cut out the bad section flip it right side and feather the inside edge about 4"-6" back then reinstall the mould and build the glass back in. then flip, grind and relay the outside. thats a lot of work which doesnt count for replacing all the wood that is wet and rotten once you get in to the rebuild but it can be done.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Peter,
I notice you have 3 separate threads started concerning different things about your boat. It's usually a good idea to keep everything about your project in one thread. Makes it much easier for everyone to follow along. Trying to reference different things about the same boat in several threads can become confusing. If it's a distinct one off type question then that's fine but if it concerns the same project you should consider staying with one thread.

I agree with George Salmon that the wood in the keel has probably rotted away and caused this. A Good solid keel would not have done this with out a MAJOR hit on the hull. It can be fixed but you will need to remove the floor and don't be surprised to find that the entire substructure will need to be replaced. That's pretty typical for these vintage boats.

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Thanks for all the information. Sorry about all the threads but they were on different topics and as I learned of morr issues I wanted to make sure that I was targeting the right people for my questions. For example I would want someone who knows about replacing canvas to have to read about repairing a hull. As for my other thread in regards to the floor that was the first one I started and had no clue that I would have to remove the floor of the boat when tring to repair the hull. So again, I appoligize, however I was just trying to keep the posts on the topic being the title. Again, thank you for your help and from now on I will keep all my questions focused on this thread, seeing I now know why my focus should be.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

It just makes it easier to keep track of where you started & how you got to where ever you are in the resto process...

To make it easier for people to see some of the other stuff you've posted, here are links to the other 2 threads:

Where to Find a Canvas Top?

Plywood floor replacement

Often it's about the pix, even though you posted different pix in plywood floor thread, someone may spot something in 1 of those pix that they think needs to be clarified or addressed during the tear down or the put back. If you're pix are in multiple different threads, it makes it hard to see them all, and treat them as a whole when posting & replying. Viewing pix w/ limited reference & size/quantity limits, can make assessing them difficult, and suggesting courses of action very difficult to do at best..

And you may have already asked & gotten responses to questions about the plywood floor (deck) in that thread, that someone may again ask or repeat in this thread in reference to getting the deck pulled to make the repairs to the damage you've posted here.

The questions & pix are great! Keep that part up & going the way you have. The canvas question would be a good additional thread, IMHO. Because a good canvas guy anywhere near Buffalo could make you a new top, whether he has ever done an early 70's MFG Gypsy before or not. Someone that does canvas or knows a canvas guy might read that thread. But may not read a 70's MFG Gypsy resto thread.

Welcome to the fiberglass boat tear down division pre-resto at the iboats dry dock!

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

My spelling and grammer all together in that last post was terrible! I have to stop posting from my phone. I type to fast and it doesn't keep up! Lol! No reason to explain, I understand what you're saying, it makes sense. Well, I honestly don't know if this is a project I'm going to be able to do, I'm a little discouraged and intimidated by the whole process, to be honest with you. Let me explain a little.

1. Even though, I have some carpentry experience along with some automotive experience, I have NEVER done something to a boat or anything the floats. Hell, prior to this boat the only thing I have ever owned that floated was a pair or kayaks.

2. I don't feel is if I know enough about boats in general to do this properly. I can read nd read and read but I'm more of a hands on guy and with no one here to physically stop me from doing something wrong kind of scares me.

3. I have no clue what the cost of this type of project is. I honestly bought this boat because it was cheap and I figured I can go fishing with my family and make some minor changes of the appearance and features and that would be a fun project for the winter. I had no clue I was going to have to go to the extent of basicly rebuilding the entire boat. Does anyone have a ballpark idea as to what a project like this would cost?

4. Did I mention I don't want to mess this up?

5. At the end of the day, I understand that after putting all this work into this boat that I will have a very reliable boat that will last me years to come along with knowing the ins and outs of this boat. At this point all I can think is where does it end? I honestly have never fiberglassed anything in my entire life and the first thing I'm going to glass is the hull of a boat that I'm going to put my family in, how can I insure I will do it properly and that it will be strong enough to take the beating the water will give it? Also, I need to fix this trailer, I have no clue where to even start.

6. Say I do get this all apart and I fix the crack and everything else. How the hell do I put this thing back together. I have been taking all the pieces off and sticking the hardware in little plastic bags that I label. But what happends if it's not water tight or hell what kind of wood do I use? Should I replace the transom while I have everything apart?

Well, at least you see some of my concerns at this point, if anyone can help with some of these uncertainties this would be a great help (especially the one about the estimated cost). Should I honestly just junk the boat and try to find something else? What's the chance of me doing this correctly? How hard is this type of project? Where the hell do I get the foam from and how much does it cost? Do I have to use a marine graded wood and where do you find something like that? How thick do I make the fiberglass patch to ensure it will be strong enough? I can keep going.... help.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

relax and breath. most of us know how you feel as we have been there. the hardest part of the rebuild is the cost and the time. $2k is a ball park number that will not be far off and that should give you another 15-20 years out of the boat. from your posts if you can buff a boat for 4 hours in one day this would be a cake walk as the worst part is the grinding off the inner hull. the biggest question as you are new to boats is....."is this the one".

for a idea on the steps and materials go to woodonglass who posted earlier and follow the link at the bottom of the post to the deck, stringers thread.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

Yep. Nobody eats an elephant all at once. Break it up into small projects that you can take 1 at a time.

1A: relax & breathe as Glenn suggests
1B: find & stockpile a beverage of your choice: frosty, adult libations are preferred by many. Those of us that don't drink, well we choose something else. What ever your choice, you'll need a good, comfortable sitting, staring & thinking chair close to the project as well. You will likely be using both quite frequently.

2: understand that this will be a taxing, frustrating and not inexpensive endeavor

3: know that if you choose to undertake this adventure, it can be done, and can be done well. Many (most) of us had never done anything remotely close to restoration & rehab of an old boat. I had never owned a boat before I built my plywood canoe-thing last summer. And had never owned a 'real' boat prior to Nov 2011. That is not the case now. None are ready to see action again, but that will eventually change.

4: did I mention that this will be a challenging, but extremely rewarding endeavor?

5: understand that no matter your timeline, you will miss goals & deadlines if you set to many or too large a goal. Break it down into small tasks that can be accomplished over a week or a month working a few hours (or 30min) at a time. See steps 1A & B

6: You don't mention what you paid for this boat, but no matter it's initial cost, if you had that money back & added $3K to it, and were able to put all of the money towards a different, more expensive boat, you may in the end still be here facing some difficult & challenging (have I said that already?:facepalm work. You will just have a more expensive project boat..... Unfortunately, used boats that have been exceptionally well cared for, are extremely hard to find and not inexpensive. Rehab of an older used project boat also allows you to pay for it over time as your budget allows. Inexpensive boats don't typically qualify for a loan. 2nd mortgage, line of credit, personal loan maybe. So you can buy materials & supplies a little at a time, and stockpile them until the weather in Buffalo improves in the spring, unless you have access to a heated garage or can tent the boat in the driveway & heat it.

7: Watching friscoboater's & boatwork's today youtube videos helped a great deal. In fact, between youtube & iboats, there isn't a part of the rebuild you are facing that isn't covered by multiple videos posted by multiple users. Watching the videos really pulled all the info I'd read & tied it all together with the pix I was seeing.

8: just like taking it apart & working on it 1 step at a time, you'll put it back together. I often shoot pix of portions of my project w/ the tape measure showing, so I have a visual record of details:

9: many of the resto threads start w/ something similar to your last post. some of those are finished, some are never heard from again. More then a few work very hard for a fairly long time & eventually succumb to pressure & frustration and are abandoned via the landfill. Find PMC's ChrisCraft thread, and Bear's yellow Imperial runabout thread. 1 went project tin, the other just traded up to a much more expensive boat.

10: good news grammer & spelling don't count

11: you get to work with your hands, get covered in dust, itch like crazy, buy some new tools, learn some chemistry, and get to say: I re-built that at the launch ramp. Something that many would like to be able to say, me included, and only a few attempt successfully. Or at least as compared to the general boat buying public, our numbers will be small. See steps 1A & B

It's just a boat, it isn't a piano, and they are all pretty much put together the same way. The crew @ the iboats dry dock can help you get your's torn down, taken apart, repaired & put back together.

Take a step back, consider your situation, and give it some time. After a few days, the OH CARP & the feelings of

may subsided & you can start to make a plan to finish the demo. At this point you own it, and it isn't going anywhere. And you are ahead if the exterior hull is in as good a shape as it appears & cleans up 'easily'

Task #1 will be to secure a good work environment, some safety gear & a grinder w/ some grinding disks & a shop vac. See steps 1A & B

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

What he said...

Take what JB just put down there. Great words of advice. One project at a time. It's like measure twice, cut once. You will get there.

 

[Peter9Do]

Re: Damaged Hull -- Pictures

JB thank you very much for taking the time to post with so much detail! I appricate it very much! I'm going to get started on this this weekend, wish me luck!