De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Hoss 350

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
49
I want to start off by saying that I am not interested in breaking the law with this, so don't accuse and/or tell me it's okay because no one checks, either way.

I would really like to see if anyone knows the rules as far as de-rating an outboard motor so that it can be installed on a certain boat without running over the horsepower limit set for the boat by the manufacturer.

Here is what I mean:

I have a 1996 FourWinns 170 Horizon with a maximum rated horsepower of 140. I have a friend who has a 150 horse V-6 that he wants to sell, so it is 10 horsepower over the boat's rating. When I was on the Kenai river, when it still had the 35 horsepower restriction on it, guys were buying 50 horse motors and having a service shop de-rate them to 35 horse instead of just buying a 35 horse motor, and I was told that this was because the 50 horse motor made more torque and had a broader peak torque range than the 35, so even at the same horsepower, the 50 de-rated made better, more usable power than the 35.

My situation is obvious, because the cutoff from 140 to 150 horsepower is the difference between a V-4 with a lower final drive ratio and a V-6 with better torque band, a higher final drive ratio, and just generally higher performance all around. A 140 horse V-4 and a 140 horse V-6 are not even similar in final performance - the V-6 will win in low end, top end and cruising.

My question, then, is is it legal to de-rate a 150 horse motor to 140 horse and mount it to my boat? I suspect that it is, because the restriction deals with final horsepower, and I didn't see where it discusses <i>manufactured</i> horsepower anywhere... Thoughts?
 

nwcove

Admiral
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May 16, 2011
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6,293
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

i dont know much about this topic, but cant imagine any service outlet, giving you a piece of paper saying that they restricted your motor by 10hp. i personally feel that the liability issues would be more than any dealer would want to get into. (just my thoughts)
 

V153

Lieutenant Commander
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1,764
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

I know I'll probly take hell for this but just paste a 4 over the 5 and be done with it. Imo a properly tuned/rigged/propped V4 140 is just as fast & way more efficient than a V6 150 on a 17' boat. What kinda motor do you have on it now?
 

wbeaton

Commander
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Jul 30, 2006
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Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

I don't think Johnny Law would believe it was de-tuned.
 

Home Cookin'

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May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

in some states it's illegal to change or obscure the factory numbers--duck hunters who paint the engine covers can get in trouble that way.

I know I'll probly take hell for this but just paste a 4 over the 5 and be done with it. Imo a properly tuned/rigged/propped V4 140 is just as fast & way more efficient than a V6 150 on a 17' boat. What kinda motor do you have on it now?
 

Hoss 350

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Messages
49
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

What kinda motor do you have on it now?

130 horse Johnson V-4. It does just fine, but it has a lot of hours on it and the V-6 my buddy has is damned near brand new and i could get it for cheap... I'm actually happy with the performance now as it is. With my new Solas Titan 4 blade 19 pitch i can get 46 mph out of it top speed and cruise at 4300 rpms at 35 mph so it runs real nice. I just saw an opportunity to get a way newer motor with more power and was wondering how to do it legally (if it was even possible).

I know on the Kenai, Johnny Law was buying the 50 to 35 horse de-rates, and the guys were just sticking numbers on the cowling to show that they were legal, which means to me that some shop somewhere was issuing certifications stating that they'd de-rated the motor to be legal, so i thought maybe it could happen in this case, too. I recognize, however, that this is a different situation, in that the 35 horse restriction on the Kenai was a RIVER restriction, whereas my restriction is a max rated HP restriction, so I wanted to ask the question to see if anyone here had had similar experience and knew the answer.
 

V153

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
1,764
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

i dont know much about this topic, but cant imagine any service outlet, giving you a piece of paper saying that they restricted your motor by 10hp. i personally feel that the liability issues would be more than any dealer would want to get into. (just my thoughts)
Ya ... and just how do they "de-rate" it anyway? Pull off a plug wire or two? Install a governer? Whole premise sounds sorta hokey to me. On the other hand if that certificate from the shop holds up in court then god bless ya. Too bad you have to deal with hp restrictions in the first place. Pertaining to what body of water you're on I mean.

On the other end of the spectrum. Water cops round here couldn't seem to care less how big a motor ya got. That's not their bread & butter. Kinda grey area anyway. If the boat has been rebuilt/reinforced for extra hp, and you can document this. It will stand up in court. Least in this vicinity. (Guess some of our judges are boaters?)

The point is kinda moot down here at least because the cops don't ever waste time checking your hp rating. Last time I checked they don't carry dynomometers on board. They make lots more money ticketing, read taxing, people going a lil too fast through the ever increasing number of no wake Manatee zones.
 

tallwill38

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Jul 1, 2011
Messages
23
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Actually a lot of the outboards are already de-rated by the manufacturers they don't build a completely new engine for every horsepower rating that a boat builder would require. Instead they retune it up or down to fill horsepower requirements.Usually there tuned down just compare the bore n stroke and weights of some outboards and you'll be able to see which ones are re-rated / de-rated. As far as the law goes I don't know about that part but back in the day we changed decals on a 85HP to show 65HP LOL :redface: biggest thing is the extra stress on the transom due to the extra weight and thrust of a larger motor 10HP is not much of a difference whats the weight difference in the motor? Of course theres the legal implications if you do decide to go this route with insurance and I definately wouldn't resell it with the bigger motor on it.As far as derating a motor that could easily be done with the throttle stop screw on most outboards but how would you know when you've derated ten HP without a dyno?
 

halfmoa

Ensign
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Aug 19, 2011
Messages
955
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

I know I'll probly take hell for this but just paste a 4 over the 5 and be done with it.

Well no one has flown off the handle yet so I'm with V153...
 

V153

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Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Gee thanks. And I was just breathing a sigh of relief ...

Imo in this particular scenario I would slap some new pistons in the 130. Re-bore if required. Un-de-tune it back to a 140, cuz that's what it was origionally. And have at it. The OMC V4 crossflow block is one of the most reliable motors ever made. Yamaha copied it for years? Anyway. Far more reliable than a V6 too, and considerably lighter.

Guess what I'm trying to say is personally I wouldn't trade a 130hp V4 for a 150hp V6. Sure you might see a performance increase but the increased weight and voracious fuel consumption for 20 extra hp just don't add up for me. Good luck!
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

A 130 from 1996 (assuming year from the boat year) is not a crossflow, it's a looper, which is a better motor. Next, you didn't say which 150 it is, there were several different models, some were good and some should be avoided.
 

V153

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Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

A 130 from 1996 (assuming year from the boat year) is not a crossflow, it's a looper, which a better motor. Next, you didn't say which 150 it is, there were several different models, some were good and some should be avoided.
Okay, so maybe it's a looper. From his description of it having a ton of hours on it I assumed it might be a lil older than the boat. My bad. However I'm not quite sure how the looper's a better motor, as I've towed several with my crossflow? Regardless, from what I'm told you should stay away from the fuel injected V6s. FICHT models in particular.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
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11,527
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Loopers have better power, better fuel mileage and are very reliable, it was good upgrade. I have a crossflow from the last year they produced them and also one from the first year they made a 200HP, nothing wrong with the simple design.
 

Bamaman1

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May 15, 2011
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1,895
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Your problem seems easily dealt with with new decals for the motor saying the 140 hp. If your dealer cannot help you, any local sign shop can custom design factory look vinyl lettering for your motor. I think they could start with a picture of your current lettering.

Aren't computers wonderful?
 

Solittle

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7,518
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

The guys you want to worry about ain't the law it is the lawyers should you have an accident. They will clean your clock.
 

KDAVID1

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Aug 13, 2011
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501
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

I am impressed--someone actually wants less power not more:eek:
 

Faztbullet

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Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

What year is the V-6? Merc makes several V-6 135 hp engines which are really the early model 150's....
 

scoutabout

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Oct 14, 2006
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1,568
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Restrictor plates, adjusted throttle stops, etc. I'm sure it's possible to de-tune a motor without too much trouble but I'm with those that wonder just how you know you've knocked exactly 10 hp off?

In a similar vein, when I was shopping for the Scout I checked out a couple with 100 horsepower 4 stroke Yamahas but ended up for various reasons with my current boat which is placarded as a 90 on the cowl. Cooincidently I noted that the 90s didn't appear until the 100 was discontinued. Curiouser and curiouser.

So I called a dealer to enquire and was told the 90 is actually the old 100 in drag. Their explanation was that the 100 was an extremely popular motor and Yamaha decided to rebadge in order to make them more palatable to insurers and thus lower premiums for owners. Apparently 100 hp is some kind of threshold for higher rates?? It was a move designed to protect eroding sales of one of their most popular motors in the face of rising insurance rates.

They can get away with this because the national regs for publishing power ratings are more lenient for marine engines than auto manufacturers. A marine engine's output has to be within 10 percent of published specs. Ergo, 100 can suddenly be "90" with no mechanical changes at all and Yamaha won't run afoul of federal regs.

Now, I have no way of knowing if any of this is true or just the misguided musings of one service manager but it would seem to indicate that rebadging engines is not completely unheard of even by the big boys.
 

crackedglass

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
203
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

Restrictor plates, adjusted throttle stops, etc. I'm sure it's possible to de-tune a motor without too much trouble but I'm with those that wonder just how you know you've knocked exactly 10 hp off?

In a similar vein, when I was shopping for the Scout I checked out a couple with 100 horsepower 4 stroke Yamahas but ended up for various reasons with my current boat which is placarded as a 90 on the cowl. Cooincidently I noted that the 90s didn't appear until the 100 was discontinued. Curiouser and curiouser.

So I called a dealer to enquire and was told the 90 is actually the old 100 in drag. Their explanation was that the 100 was an extremely popular motor and Yamaha decided to rebadge in order to make them more palatable to insurers and thus lower premiums for owners. Apparently 100 hp is some kind of threshold for higher rates?? It was a move designed to protect eroding sales of one of their most popular motors in the face of rising insurance rates.

They can get away with this because the national regs for publishing power ratings are more lenient for marine engines than auto manufacturers. A marine engine's output has to be within 10 percent of published specs. Ergo, 100 can suddenly be "90" with no mechanical changes at all and Yamaha won't run afoul of federal regs.

Now, I have no way of knowing if any of this is true or just the misguided musings of one service manager but it would seem to indicate that rebadging engines is not completely unheard of even by the big boys.

I ran into this with my 1982 70hp Mercury triple and my 1986 Mercury 50hp triple, both motors are identical part number for part number down to the carb jets, block, exhaust parts etc. The only difference is the year. I was told that they rated the older motor at the power head and the newer one at prop.
I found the same thing with an older 135hp Evinrude and a 1984 115hp Evinrude.

The issue however in this case is that your boat is rated at 140hp, which in the OMC world is a V4, and the 150hp is a V6, I wouldn't be too concerned about the affects of 10 more hp but the added weight may be an issue both in transom capability and boat handling.
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Re: De-Rating Outboard Horsepower to Match Boat HP Limit

If both models shares same engine block, being only 10 HP difference, just change cowl's decals for the 140 model, as visible information enters through the eyes :D

Happy Boating
 
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