Dead battery, wont jump?!?

[Twenty7]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Ok, now that we have successfully drifted away form the point I?m going to bring your guys back in.

I went to have the batteries tested and was told that both batteries are fully charged and in perfect working order (I don?t believe them). And after reading (and deciphering) your posts on battery chargers I still believe that this is a battery related problem. If the batteries were in perfect working order the engine would turn over several times and not ignite. As it stands it turns over once then boggs down. (How do you turn over by hand?)

Both batteries are rated for 500 cranking amps, is this enough to start a 454? What is the ideal battery for starting? I intend to purchase and replace my older battery and see if this fixes my problem. Sound thinking?
thanks for the help.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

I dont think 500 cca is nearly enough for a 454, I have a 850 cca for my 350's starting battery and a big group 27 deep cycle for the house battery. The types of batteries you use is up to you but a typical setup is a cranking battery to start the engine and a deep cycle for when you are floating/beached/etc to run your stereo and other accessories. But some also use two cranking type batteries so its kind of up to you and your needs as far as which types to use. I wouldn't use two deep cycles though they don't have that burst of amps to spin the engine over like a cranking battery does. Good luck with your problem, did they load test both of your current batteries? If so and they both checked out I would look into 1- wireing 2- connections, both have to be perfect. Also when finished boating turn the selector to off to prevent any slow drain on either battery.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

You need to check all of your cable connections including grounds. Take them off....clean them to bare metal with sand paper...and put them back on.

Could also be your starter. If that starter has ever been submerged in water, it could fail at anytime.

I have a 454 and mine starts easily with a deep discharge battery.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Based on how those batteries were wired together, in my opinion, they are both bad now. Wiring those batteries together like they were, when one got weak, the other tried to hold the other one up, thereby causing it to go bad as well.

Also, that 500cca is nto enough to turn that 454. It would have taken both batteries putting a combined 1000 to turn it, which is probably why the previous owner wired them that way...

I would get a 1000 cca starting battery and a deep cycle and wire them the proper way on that switch...

Also, check the starter, it might be the issue...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

The guy had them wired up seperately, it was the grounds getting switched through the switch.

 

[witenite0560]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Sounds like the typical poor connections problem. In this case, I'd say incorrectly connected, also. I'd be willing to bet that if you hooked either battery up correctly and with good connection, as you normally would a single battery, you'll find it works.
Once you've done that and you're confident that both batteries are good. Just hook them up correctly and securely through the selector switch and I'm betting you'll be off and running.
Just a hunch, since poor connections can cause all kinds of weird symptoms and problems and are the most common and overlooked battery related issue, especially in the marine environment.

 

[Apollo75]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Ok, now that we have successfully drifted away form the point I?m going to bring your guys back in.

I went to have the batteries tested and was told that both batteries are fully charged and in perfect working order (I don?t believe them). And after reading (and deciphering) your posts on battery chargers I still believe that this is a battery related problem. If the batteries were in perfect working order the engine would turn over several times and not ignite. As it stands it turns over once then boggs down. (How do you turn over by hand?)

Both batteries are rated for 500 cranking amps, is this enough to start a 454? What is the ideal battery for starting? I intend to purchase and replace my older battery and see if this fixes my problem. Sound thinking?
thanks for the help.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not a simple matter ---- your batteries are more than adequate to start a 454-engine in good order. As some members have stated a battery with more CCA and Reserve capacity would provide more capacity should you ever need it.

If the batteries were load tested by someone who knew what they were doing and you still have these problems. I would suggest it may be one of the following areas.

1. A bad connection anywhere in the starting circuit.

2. A bad starter.

3. Increased load on the starter from the engine and/or anything connected to the engine. (outdrive, bad pump, etc.)

4. And probably something I did not consider --- other members will help here.

Best of Luck

OFM

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder where my other post went

 

[Twenty7]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Incorrect first assesment, found water in engine. I pulled one plug and didn't find any water, I just checked the other plugs to be through. Lots of water. Inprocess of changing oil, filter and old plugs. What else do I need to do?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Incorrect first assesment, found water in engine.
What else do I need to do?

Ayuh,... Figure out how it got there....

 

[Twenty7]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Changed oil, filter and plugs, cleaned carb and everything else. engine will turn over although slowly, but wont start. ?!?

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

As Bondo stated you MUST figure out how the water got in there in the first place, otherwise you are wasting money with plugs/oil/etc. Unless you KNOW for sure it was a freak accident that a rain storm deposited a bunch of water into the engine through the carb. There is something going on inside that needs to be addressed, how long did the water sit in there the first time? If long at all you may already be in need of a tear down, to fix what the water destroyed and to figure out how its getting in there. Did you turn the engine over with the plugs out? how did you get all of the water out. Time is of the essance here don't want to sound gloom but it needs to be addressed right away.

 

[Twenty7]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Found leak in boat cover explaining how water got to carb. I know it rained for at least 4 days before I noticed leak. pulled out various plugs and turned engine, no water only air came out cylinder. had starter and alternator checked. I was told the starter is good but alt is bad. fine but a alternator wont keep engine from starting. checked wires and ground cleaned connections and replaced. engine will turn over but slowly. "whaaa, whoooa" that sound over 1.5 sec. Google describes this as a starter problem, is there a chance these load test aren't accurate?
if water got in another way how do I find it?
new alternator arrives Wed and I'll install new starter just to check. sometime before then I'll get an amp meter and measure various spots in accordance with manual. any suggestions?

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

I would take all of the plugs out spray some fogging oil or wd-40 or similar into each cyl. with the plugs out see how it turns over both by hand and with the starter. keep checking oil level to make sure the pan isn't still full of water. If it wont turn over with the plugs out the starter is bad, there is a bad connection somewhere, or there is internal damage. How did rain water get through the cover, dog house, carb cover piece and spark arrestor? Once you figure out what is wrong you are going to have to chance the oil and filter a number of times until it is perfectly clean with no sign of water. If you get lucky and it is just rain water I would make sure in the future that you put plastic, or a tarp or something over the engine every time it is stored.

 

[matt 57]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

I'd have one battery charged and tested it in the truck or just pull the battery from the truck and install on the boat bypassing the switch.
Mesure the voltage drop when cranking if still no success. No second battery at this time. If you can start the motor, then check the swith.

 

[Twenty7]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

I would take all of the plugs out spray some fogging oil or wd-40 or similar into each cyl. with the plugs out see how it turns over both by hand and with the starter. .

WE HAVE LIFE!!! pulled plugs, sprayed WD-40, turned engine over a few times, replaced plugs and Wham started right up (good call Utahboatnut). So all I have left is to rewire batteries (thanks Silvertip for picture) and replace altnator. Plastic sheet for engine cover and Good to go!

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

Glad you got it. Keep us posted on your boat.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

If it were me I would now run it on the muffs for 15-20 (or more) min. at idle and continue to check the dipstick and condition of oil. While still warm (watch hands for hot oil burns) drain the oil and leave the plug out for a bit, also change oil filter. Once finished do it again or as many times as it takes until oil is perfect amber after running for awhile. For this procedure I would use the cheapest stuff you can find on sale by the case in a 10-40w or so. Then once satisfied all traces of water are gone use the good stuff(or whatever you have been running in the past) and a new filter. Next time out on the lake and running it hard continue to check the oil throughout the day. It can be a real bugger to get all of the water out sometimes, however $50.00 bucks worth of oil and a few filters is MUCH cheaper than a teardown. I don't know if you are in an area where winterization is needed but if you are do this BEFORE you put it to bed for the winter. Good luck I'm glad it has worked out so far.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Dead battery, wont jump?!?

OK now unhook the batteries and use the jumper cables on the battery cables totally by passing the batteries. This should tell you if its the batteries or the starter.

But All connections need to be clean.

500 CCA may be enough if your engine is using one of the new gear reduction starters, if not I would go for 700 or better.