decarbonizing w/water

[ziggy]

i've read about the old time method of decarbonizing using water down the carb.... so how much water do ya apply? mist it in? small stream?
i'm kinda thinking about trying this idea....

what exactly would get decarbonized using this method? the combustion chamber, the spark plugs, the valve tops??????

any drawbacks from this method?

is this a bad idea and i shouldn't do it??

this is for my old 165 L6 listed below....

 

[Fishermark]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

what exactly would get decarbonized using this method? the combustion chamber, the spark plugs, the valve tops??????

All the above.

How much? A little at a time.

I would think a spray bottle would work???
I've never done it, but like you, have seen it posted before.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I am a little suspicious of "decarbonizing" That seems to be a 2 stroke outboard engine process that is evidently well documented...but I have never heard of anyone (except here or on other "boat boards") decarbonizing a 4 stroke engine or (or needing to do it on a 4 stroke).

So, why would it need to be done on a "boat" engine and not on a car or truck engine?

I never did it on my 57 ford and I didn't need to do it on my current 55 Ford truck.

I had a 1966 Mark twain with a 150 Mercruiser (L6 230, dad bought it new.....head was never off........I had it until 2005) and it never needed "decarbonizing".

My question would be why do you think you need to "Decarbonize" your engine? What are the symptoms?

If you dump water down the carb in a big enough amount you'll "De-rod" the engine instead of decarbonize it when you hydrolock it.



Regards,



Rick

 

[Bondo]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Ayuh,....

I do it whenever I'm going to tear down a motor,... It saves Awhole Lot of scraping later....
It'll also sometimes help with a Run-On issue....

Fire up the motor,+ run it til Up to normal Temp,....
With the motor running about 1500rpms,...
Slowly pour a 16oz. bottle of water directly down the carb's throat,... Pour it fast enough to cause the motor to Labor, but Not Stall....

It'll Steam Clean all of the combustion chamber, piston top, valves, etc....
Sparkplugs included.......

 

[ziggy]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

My question would be why do you think you need to "Decarbonize" your engine? What are the symptoms?

well, i feel i need to rebuild my carb perhaps. i think i'm a shade rich as i get a black smoke bathtub ring, mostly on the transom... plugs are a shade sooty looking. i also don't do many wot runs... some, but not a lot.... so being the lazy fella i am and removing my spark plugs and cleaning them, or rebuilding the carb., which i did just get a carb kit for but ain't been ontoit yet. but i will... and i wanted to go out today w/o pulling my plugs and cleaning them proper..... i thought i'd ask about the water down the carb. trick....

If you dump water down the carb in a big enough amount you'll "De-rod" the engine instead of decarbonize it when you hydrolock it.

that, i'm not gonna do. if i even get the slightest notion that i could do that, i ain't doin it..... kinda why i was asking about the proper amount to apply......

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Ayuh,....

Pour it fast enough to cause the motor to Labor, but Not Stall....

Stall = Hydrolock

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

One little session of advanced timing that causes a little bit of pinging will decarbonize VERY quickly. (of course it could punch holes in pistons too!!)

If you're running "rich" back off the choke a little. In fact, I disconnected my choke. If the carb is running rich (jets/float level high etc) maybe you need to rebuild it and put slightly leaner jets in it. Once it's running correctly it will "decarbon" itself.


For my purposes. I'll NEVER intentionally dump water down the carb, running or not. I also don't use snake oils either......those are best for the people that sell them.


Your mileage may vary.


Regards,


Rick

 

[xxxflhrci]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Been doing it for years:

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d141/xxxflhrci/?action=view&current=water.flv

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I changed the head gasket on my sisters chevy (4cyl.) It was quite evident where the coolant was going for the first two pistons and valves along with the cumbustion chambers were clean as a whistle like brand new, made a believer out of me, I use a spray bottle myself and de-carb before each oil change and best of all it costs nothing.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I don't know about this method. However it just goes against everything I
ever learned about engines.

If it wasn't bondo and a few others here that I believe are fantastic mechanics I would say it's bull.

This method after time wouldn't lead to scoring of the cyl. walls, and ring failure? How about the valve seats and rods? I thought the whole idea was to keep moisture out of the engine.

 

[mkast]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Old high performance aircraft used a system called ADI, Anti Detonation Injection. At lower altitudes, water was used, at higher altitudes, alcohol was added to the water to keep it from freezing.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I know that some late war fighter aircraft in WW II had water injection available.

It could only be used for about a minute at a time for extra power in combat situations.I believe that the short durations in which it could be used was due to the fact it increased the engine compression and temperature to dangerous levels, and that's why was reserved for emergencies.

The principal behind the increased power was the fact that the water volume was increased during ignition along with the fuel, to create steam.

Just as a small measure of fuel expands during ignition creating power to move the piston, water with the fuel expands in to steam, greatly increasing the power expansion of the fuel.

In my humble opinion the risks outweigh the gain in using this method.

However it's a free country, it's your motor employ this method at your own risk.

 

[Bondo]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Ayuh,....

I learned of this procedure from the British Leyland Factory Manuals that I used back in my younger days working on my Austin Minis,+ Series II,+ III Land Rovers....

And,... As I said before,.... It Does work.....

Btw,...
Water-Injection is Still used today with Forced Induction motors to help keep Detonation at bay....

 

[chiefalen]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

With the thinner cyl walls of todays motors, I wonder if there is a real danger of way to mush compression for a engine not designed for it. A diesel engine is designed for high compression could probably handle it but todays gas engines?

How many head gaskets get blown employing this method?

Bubba smart, real smart post. My hat off to ya. Old days are just that the good ole days.

Todays fuel whole different dog.

 

[79tkx]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

get a sixer of blatz,start her up,drink two cans,then pour the third down the carb throat,drink the last three,shut the engine down,go get another sixer and drink it,done!

 

[mkast]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I get the feeling "thoughts" aren't the same as tearing down an engine.

 

[bigbob_FTW]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

get a sixer of blatz,start her up,drink two cans,then pour the third down the carb throat,drink the last three,shut the engine down,go get another sixer and drink it,done!

Now that's funny right there...

 

[thumpar]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

I know that some late war fighter aircraft in WW II had water injection available.

It could only be used for about a minute at a time for extra power in combat situations.I believe that the short durations in which it could be used was due to the fact it increased the engine compression and temperature to dangerous levels, and that's why was reserved for emergencies.

The principal behind the increased power was the fact that the water volume was increased during ignition along with the fuel, to create steam.

Just as a small measure of fuel expands during ignition creating power to move the piston, water with the fuel expands in to steam, greatly increasing the power expansion of the fuel.

In my humble opinion the risks outweigh the gain in using this method.

However it's a free country, it's your motor employ this method at your own risk.

It was used on turbo engines alot. Mainly to keep the temps down and prevent pinging. I am into Saab's and it is a common addon when boosting about normal or running high compression and boosting. If you do a search you will see that the systems are sold for high performance turbo applications.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Bubba ignore him.

Concerning the saab turbo. Are we talking about keeping a car for 3 years and trading it in? Bet within 20,000 miles your gonna be rebuilding that saab with a turbo after market add on.

Are you gonna void that warranty adding that booster?

Or are we talking about a 100,000 mile car that you rebuilt from the top down,and setup with the proper clearances, lifters, oil pump, cam, etc.

I never liked that foreign f---n sweedish or wherever it's made pos.

Now volvos another story my brother got 2 now and had about 20 of them.All non turbo and 200,000-300,000 miles no problem. He lives in Texas go get a beer there is like 20 miles away.

 

[thumpar]

Re: decarbonizing w/water

Bubba ignore him.

Concerning the saab turbo. Are we talking about keeping a car for 3 years and trading it in? Bet within 20,000 miles your gonna be rebuilding that saab with a turbo after market add on.

Are you gonna void that warranty adding that booster?

Or are we talking about a 100,000 mile car that you rebuilt from the top down,and setup with the proper clearances, lifters, oil pump, cam, etc.

I never liked that foreign f---n sweedish or wherever it's made pos.

Now volvos another story my brother got 2 now and had about 20 of them.All non turbo and 200,000-300,000 miles no problem. He lives in Texas go get a beer there is like 20 miles away.

Going a bit off topic not but my first Saab was an 87 turbo. 225,000 miles when I sold it and stock turbo, engine, tranny, running great. I am on my second with a V6 @ 192,000 and still runs fantastic.

The water injection is not just a saab thing, but comes into play with them because from the factory they run 12lbs of boost. You can crank it up very easily and it will ping. The water is to keep the cylinder cool so that it will not ping. On a stock block I4 you can push it to about 300hp. Anymore and yes it will need some work. And the Volvo guys do it too.

Just saying water in the engine is not a bad thing if it is controlled. If I was at a point I needed decarb an engine I would not hesitate to use the water method. If it doesn't work you are still at the same thing you where at, having to open it up and do it that way.