DF70 head will not move

[karlow1]

Short version, i have removed all of the bolts under the valve cover, and the two nuts under the head.
It will not move. Is there something hidden in the pan or engine mount? My manual is aftermarket and does not show any other hardware.
A little help please!

Long version.
I picked this motor up about a year ago for $750. It ran at the time.
It had been used on some research vessel.
The first problem turned out to be sea water in the fuel system.
The 2nd issue was water in the oil. I cleaned out the fuel system, replaced a few parts.
I changed the oil and hoped for the best. The motor was for a 17' whaler that need a lot of work.
I have put a lot of work into the boat and we have come full circle. The motor has been on the water twice, it runs good, and idles great.
There is a hesitation coming off idle, the the throttle is stiff as is the steering. The problem is there is water getting into the oil.
I have started pulling the beast apart hoping for a leaky head gasket.
The head will not come off, what am I missing?

KP

 

[boobie]

Re: DF70 head will not move

I'm not that familular with your mtr but are there any bolts on the exhaust manifold holding it on ??

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

No, the exhaust has been removed.

 

[boobie]

Re: DF70 head will not move

Next thing I can tell you is to get your hands on a factory service manual or else talk to a dlr. Those after market service manuals suck!!

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

That would help, the aftermarket manual leaves out a few things like, You have you lift the power head to remove the cylinder head!
After I verify that the engine is salvageable, I will order the manual along with the gaskets. So far the head looks good, it's not warped. There is very little pitting and none in important areas. So I do not have clue why I've had a problem. It just be a poorly designed gasket. Too bad Fel-Pro doesn't not make a replacement head gasket for this thing!

That a nice head!

 

[boobie]

Re: DF70 head will not move

Water in the oil (milky oil ) could also be caused by a cold running mtr, bad or wrong thermo. Was your oil milky colored ?

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

I had the cold weather oils issue last year with a 40HP 2 smoke. It would run out the prop after a bunch of trolling (yelloow puss).
The oil level was high with a significant amount of added water after about 10 hours of use over a few months. The oil was in the same condition when I got the motor. It looks like dark chocolate milk w yellow puss on the dip stick. Too much water to ignore, I tried!
The story gets better Suzuki does a lot of things right, but some things very wrong! You read a lot of complaints about corrosion in these engines. One of the things Suzuki does correct is that add zinks inside the engine to protect the aluminum from corrosion. That's a great idea, the problem is they also include a bunch of ferrous metal plugs in the engine. They are magnetic, so they are not three series stainless. WTF! each one creates a corrosion cell! There is no way in hell you will ever be able to remove one w/o a drill. They could have been anodized aluminum that way you would have had a shot at removing them. At least you would not have the corrosion problems.
My head and block are in good condition, just a little pitting on the head. What I found was the corrosion cell created the steel plugs on the bottom of the engine. It appears to have compromised the gasket on the base of the engine where it sits on the holder. I have cleaned the area up, and it looks like it should seal OK. I need to seal the two steel plugs in that area to avoid a recurrence. I have removed the rust as best I can, and cleaned out the aluminum corrosion (it had created a raised section). I could use epoxy or use 4200. It's a shame this problem is totally unnecessary!
In short, if you have a DF series motor with water getting into the oil, make sure you pull and check the bottom of the power head for corrosion problems.
It could save you the cost of the head gasket, and valve cover gasket!
I will post the results after I get her back on the water. ETA 2 weeks!

See ya on the water!
KP
See the pic, this is not what you want to see when you take a peek up your girls shirt!

 

[Silvertip]

Re: DF70 head will not move

Why not replace the steel plugs with brass equivalents.

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

Its a little late now.
Brass is not likely the best choice for material.
It would work great in your car.
It is not likely you will be able to remove them w/o a drill.
They are not broken, and they are not going anywhere.
First rule of engineering, Do no harm!

I removed the t-stat, no problem. It is stuck open. I cleaned it up with some CLR.
It's still sticks open. You can force it closed. Heat it up in boiling water.
It pops open, and stays that way. There goes another $50!
I need to remove the water valve from the exhaust and check it.
It does not seem to be so willing to corporate. I fell a little impact in my future.
I so hope nothing breaks!
Outboards are such a PITA!
Saltwater, aluminum, steel and time are no mans friends!

 

[99yam40]

Re: DF70 head will not move

If you are repairing corrosion damage with 4200 or epoxy I sure hope you are not heading out on the water very far and away from safety, you never know when you patch job will decide to come loose.

"I had the cold weather oils issue last year with a 40HP 2 smoke. It would run out the prop after a bunch of trolling (yelloow puss)." You statement about 2 stroke motor has me confussed , which oil was getting water in it and running out of the prop?

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

If you are repairing corrosion damage with 4200 or epoxy I sure hope you are not heading out on the water very far and away from safety, you never know when you patch job will decide to come loose.

"I had the cold weather oils issue last year with a 40HP 2 smoke. It would run out the prop after a bunch of trolling (yelloow puss)." You statement about 2 stroke motor has me confussed , which oil was getting water in it and running out of the prop?

It was the leftover oil from the fuel. The lower end was fine, but you can't tail by looking at whats dribbling out of the prop the next day. IT had me worried checking the lower end for water.

See the pic for the problem on the DF70. the plan is to seal the pipe plug to protect them from further oxidation. The will protect the Aluminum in the area.

 

[boobie]

Re: DF70 head will not move

I've been doing a little reading on this mtr and I hate to tell you this but the t-stat could have been the prob all along. They make two different t-stats for this mtr. One for 140*f and one for 160*f. You could also raise the mtr higher on the transom to get the c/c out of the water to let the oil run hotter. Another trick is to drop the pitch on the prop to let the mtr rev higher but not to exceed wot specs.

 

[99yam40]

Re: DF70 head will not move

What is a c/c

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

The prop thing is another issue. We are talking 6K at about 24 Knts. We are severely under propped currently. The mtr is mounted two holes up on the transom. I do note that there are to T-stats, 60c, & 72C. Did you look at the pics? Did you note the part about the high oil level due to the added water? So your theory is after less then 20 hour of operation in 70 degree weather this mtr has absorbed about one quart of water in the oil pan? What is a C/C?

I sealed the plugs with epoxy today. I looks good. The trick is to paint the parts with epoxy, then hit it with the heat gun. It makes the epoxy cold flow for better smoother finish. The epoxy is similar to JB weld. The viscosity is similar to peanut butter.

Waiting for parts, I need to order the T-stat. Should I go for the high temp, or the low? Currently it's cold as F$%ck over here.
That means it's in the 30s. The water temp will get down to the 40 during the winter. I'm in So Cal. East of East LA! What do you think?

KP

 

[99yam40]

Re: DF70 head will not move

It was the leftover oil from the fuel. The lower end was fine, but you can't tail by looking at whats dribbling out of the prop the next day. IT had me worried checking the lower end for water.View attachment 124487

See the pic for the problem on the DF70. the plan is to seal the pipe plug to protect them from further oxidation. The will protect the Aluminum in the area.

Now I understand what you are doing with the epoxy.
Unburned 2 stroke oil coming out the exhaust means to me that a cylinder is not firing properly

I would use the higher temp stat

 

[Silvertip]

Re: DF70 head will not move

Unburned 2 stroke oil coming out the exhaust means to me that a cylinder is not firing properly

I would use the higher temp stat

A DF70 is a four stroke -- better not be any two stroke in this engine. DT's are two stroke motors.

 

[99yam40]

Re: DF70 head will not move

A DF70 is a four stroke -- better not be any two stroke in this engine. DT's are two stroke motors.

He has talked about both 2 and 4

 

[karlow1]

Re: DF70 head will not move

I think the yellow dribble has more to do with cold temperatures and trolling all day.
The motor was setup for premix, and I always ran it at 40:1.
That's the right mix for high speed, but is too rich for trolling along.
The epoxy is done. I pulled and cleaned the water valve. It's a check valve.

 

[bezerk]

Re: DF70 head will not move

first off this is a four stroke motor!!!df70. there is no permix !!!! straight gas.most likely the open thermosta was your problem.

 

[99yam40]

Re: DF70 head will not move

If you read all the posts he was talking about a different 40 hp 2 stroke in #7 post, so don't get confused as we have been talking about 2 different motors