Did I buy the wrong trailer

[contractorguy]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I'd probably make a template of the transom (cardboard or...), and see what it will look like.

Your gonna need a ladder to get in

And probably waterproof the taillights on your tow rig

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I doubt if the boat and trailer will upset all that easy, the center of gravity on the boat is basically just ahead of the engine and slightly forward on a boat like that. The rest is just bulk and wind resistance when on a trailer.

I used to own a 31' cabin boat, which was an older, heavy hull, it weighed in at well over 15K. The beam width was 12.5', the trailer which I transported it on every winter was only 8.6" wide with four axles. I didn't go far but I did store the boat at a buddies farm, which meant hauling it down behind his barn down a dirt road. The worst part was making the turn into his property, which dropped down off the road about 4' within about 20'. It was an ordeal to haul, but I never once worried about if falling off. The boat sat on four full length bunks with two short V blocks to hold it near the stern. We didn't launch it ourselves it was hoisted off at the marina each spring and stayed in the water all summer.
My biggest concern was all the frame flex and creaking. The trailer wasn't ideal but I was limited by the width of the road, as it was I was 6" wider than the legal limit.

Your trailer won't be ideal but it will hold it so long as you support it right. The bunk arrangement on that red trailer is sort of what your shooting for on yours but the outer bunk supports will have to be pretty long. The hard part will be getting the trailer close enough so you can at least get the boat in place for final adjustments.
What I do is to block up the boat, then bring the trailer under neath real close, lowing the hull down as low as it can get onto the keel rollers slightly, then I position the bunks and level the boat.
I would have more concern about the boat leaning over on the trailer or the bunk brackets not being secure enough on the frame and moving or sliding, I'd want a bunk bracket on every cross member the bunk board crosses, and I'd probably consider bolting them in place once you have them where you want them. Those round pole brackets on there now like to slip and slide under weight.

One thing I don't like about C channel frames is that the cross members tend to twist under heavy loads and C channel can be tough to clamp too. If it's made out of structural C channel, its not quite as bad, but if the cross members are stamped steel, then you'll really need to make sure the bunks are secured or bolted. I'm not a fan of drilling into a galvanized frame but I think it may be your best option.

I'm in NJ, but I think that after dealing with all the salt corrosion and shallow water here, I miss the deep, calm lakes and freshwater rivers of the inland states. There's a lot to be said for not having your motor corrode away and every bit of trim on your boat pitting and falling apart from salt exposure. Even the best flush and wash job don't seem to do much to preserve some parts over time.

With those light duty bunk poles, I'd venture to guess that trailer probably had an old aluminum cabin boat on it or something fairly light. I've got a 22' trailer here with those type of poles, they tend to slide in the clamps and come loose. The trailer had a 22' Starcraft Chieftain on it with an I/O. It's been getting used lately as my lumber and steel hauler when I need supplies, being a painted trailer I don't dare dunk it in the salt here and it's got light duty axles so I just keep it around like a utility trailer for now.
Make sure the tires and springs are up to snuff on that trailer too, that thing looks pretty old.

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Contractorguy:
Grat ideal about the template!

reelfishin:
It will be impossible to drydock the boat. I don't have the equipment and by chance if I try it, I'm affraid it might tip over.

I included a couple more pictures of the trailer. At the moment there is a braided wire cable that's pretty old, I suspect I'll be putting a lot of pressure onit once I try to get the boat on the trailer. Should I change to nylon?

As for the structual strenght of the trailer, it's stated on the I.D. GVWR 5900 lbs. It has a 2 5/16 hitch. The trailer also tilts. I doubt I'll use the tilt.

The boat weighs 4000lbs. So I thought the trailer was strong enough.

One bad item is that there is No brakes, I'll be pulling it with a F-350 dullie crewcab 4x4.

I worry about the bunk braces, I'll be using 12 Bloster braces. The cross member is striaght and from the keel roller to the top of the fender is 5 1/4". The distance from the cross member to the top of the fender is 7". That gives me 8 1/2" including the 2x6. I'll have to use every bit of the 12" brace, of course I need to keep 2 bots bolted to the frame, but will the brace bend?

That is a great concern! I'll try to mock up a transom template to compare it to the trailer frame.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

No brakes? That would not be legal in my state and it wouldn't pass inspection.

 

[57crestliner]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Ah, your tilt trailer is your answer. Replace your front box beam. Move your winch stand to the new part, and balance your new, longer trailer. Did mine this way, and my Crestliner has never tracked so well.

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Funny you brought that up. I was looking at it today and all the comments made about being too high to launch, I thought if it would be possible to use the tilt. Therefore, I pulled the bolt back and it didn't tilt. It must be frozen.

I never used a tilt trailer. Could this be used to get the boat back on the trailer.


Also, I don't understand what you mean by "moving your front box beam"

What new part are you talking about.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

In my experience, the tilt feature on a tandem trailer just don't work very well. It's only really good to allow the tongue a little bit of movement as the boat is off loaded and to ease the angle of the tongue to the truck on the ramp. There's nothing for the trailer to pivot on without lifting one axle off the ground. Chances are you'll find the whole ordeal of using the tilt more hassle than its worth.

Bunk brackets come in various gauge steel. The one's I use are usually 7 gauge steel.

You need to find a good source for the brackets in your area or mail order what you need.
Take a look here at the double U bolt bunk brackets. They may be your best bet on that set up. They come in 11 3/4" long, plus the height of the angle bracket on top will give you good wide support for that hull. The trailer cross members are also the strongest near the outer areas. I'd then add a set of 10 or 12" keel rollers down the middle.

http://i34.tinypic.com/11l3axl.jpg

 

[JimS123]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Years ago every boat trailer I owned was a tilt and I used it every time. No need when you retreive, but it made launching a snap.

My cxurrent trailer is a tandem and also a tilt. The very first time I used it I naturally let it tilt. I don't remember what the wheels / axles dis, but I remember it was a pita becasue it rquired screwing a bolt in and out. All my others simple had a lever to pull up. Anyway, never used the tilt on that one again. Its all rollers and it just rolls off easy anyway.

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I made a templete of the transom. When measuring for bracket height from the crossmember I allowed varibles for the Keel roller that is taller then the crossmember by 1 1/2" and pressure on the keel roller (one of the rollers is squashed, I believe thats how it would be when the boat is on the trailer)

I plan on using (4) horizontal 2x6's, mounted to 12" bolster brackets.
The brackets with the swivel is 13", with a 2x6 I have 14 1/2" to work with.

I want to able to use the whole bracket on the frame, I really don't want to extend it that much, maybe an 1 1/2" if needed.

They will be mounted from the center of the drain hole out. From the top of the crossmember it will be 12 1/2" & 19 1/2"
I was going to incorporate the older standup poles and place 2 on each end near the transom spanding them with a 4' 2x6.

I'm having a hard time figuring how to mount the brackets (if I do it now, maybe they wouldn't be in the ideal space) or measure and install them when the boat is loaded. I fret loading the boat only with the poles as support.

To get to the end of the crossmember, just before the fender cover, the height from the top of the crossmember to the hull is 11 1/2", therefore the tallest bracket can't be used. Reason why I'm using the above spacing.

I did see in that ad a vertical large bunk bracket, except my crossmember is 1 1/2" thick C-Channel and that bracket is 5". I wonder if using a 2x6 vertically would give me the height and if I can drill holes spaced an 1 1/2". Do they make u-bolts that wide. Waht are those bolts called, not u-bolts since they have a flat end, not like a pipe u-bolt?

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

JIMS123 and others, I contacted Regal and they told me that my deadrise at the transom is 21 degrees.

I was looking on line at the 10" vertical large bunk Brackets (looks like a better ideal, than 12" bolster brackets) and was rethinking my remodeling project. If I'm correct, at the far end (fender side) from the crossmember to the hull is 11 1/2". If the weight of the boat squashes the keel roller a 1/2" then I have 11" to work with. The bracket will be approx. an 1" from the hull.

I can use a vertical 2x6 and adjust to fit, which would leave some space from the 2x6 to the frame (I was concerned about side to side movement with 10" brackets) or I can strenghten the brace using a 2x12 and cut it's desired height. Or I can get another 10" bracket and mount it to the other side of the 2x6 and sandwich it in.

I'm enclosing a photo of a boat that was once on the trailer, you can see that the balance was kept by poles in each corner. The seller said it was a 24' boat. It looks close to 20' The trailer is 24' from hitch to rear crossmember.

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Did this thread DIE???

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I'm still here, waiting to see photos of your boat sitting on that trailer.
I have seen those squared u-blots but don't know what they call em.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

JIMS123 and others, I contacted Regal and they told me that my deadrise at the transom is 21 degrees.

I was looking on line at the 10" vertical large bunk Brackets (looks like a better ideal, than 12" bolster brackets) and was rethinking my remodeling project. If I'm correct, at the far end (fender side) from the crossmember to the hull is 11 1/2". If the weight of the boat squashes the keel roller a 1/2" then I have 11" to work with. The bracket will be approx. an 1" from the hull.

I can use a vertical 2x6 and adjust to fit, which would leave some space from the 2x6 to the frame (I was concerned about side to side movement with 10" brackets) or I can strenghten the brace using a 2x12 and cut it's desired height. Or I can get another 10" bracket and mount it to the other side of the 2x6 and sandwich it in.

I'm enclosing a photo of a boat that was once on the trailer, you can see that the balance was kept by poles in each corner. The seller said it was a 24' boat. It looks close to 20' The trailer is 24' from hitch to rear crossmember.

Your over thinking this whole thing, first set all the keel rollers on your new trailer at the same height, as low as they will go and still be above the frame. Put your boat on jack stands at the height of the rollers on the trailer from the ground. Let some air out of the trailer tires an back the trailer under the boat. roughly assemble both side bunks and set their location and height, making both sides exactly the same. and parallel to each other. Then inflate the tires and remove the stands.
To lift the bow, use a long beam that's wider than the bow so you can get the trailer under the bow easily. You can play the guessing game in setting up the bunks but that boat is too heavy to play around with trying to adjust on the trailer after the fact. I'd use square u bolts on the bunk brackets. and you would probably be fine with a bracket on every other cross member. I'd retain the forward posts as stabilizers, they won't hurt anything and may help balance the boat a bit.
I don't think the situation is as bad as you think, but my biggest concern would be launching that boat on that trailer. You'll need a really steep ramp and some deep water.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

The photo of the old boat, and the trailer description is one of the reasons buying used stuff sucks. The previous boat was not a 24'er, and the trailer doesn't appear to be right for a 24'er. As described by your plan, you can make it work, and make it work well enough to use, but people tend to exaggerate sizes to sell things.

 

[Silver Eagle]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I would put bunks under that boat, you have to hit dead center to get it to rest on the rollers, it will also lean to one side or the other unless the side boards are a form fit. You need bunks to hold the load.

That trailer would scare me towing it.You have no side support for the boat. I hope those straps are rated high. If you make a hard turn the boat will fall off of the trailer. Take your hand and try to hold something in it. That's what your trailer has to do to your boat. Look around at other trailers before you do any towing.You will see what I mean. When I had my I/O I had a Loadrite trailer that could hold a boat up to 28 ft. It had four wheels and Disc brakes all the way around. You need at least that with that big of a boat.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

The main concern is going to be the height.
The majority of weight in an I/O boat is down low and towards the stern in most cases.
I'd start by moving the axles back at least another 30" or so.
Then get the center bunks set as low as they can be on that trailer. If side support is an issue add a set of side bunks or guide ons. Guide on bunks may be needed either way since you will no doubt have to be in pretty deep water to float that boat onto such a high trailer.

As far as the boat falling off on turns, its more likely that the whole trailer would upset rather than the boat just falling off the trailer. A little common sense when driving will prevent that.

I pulled a 24' Sea Ray cuddy cabin from Pittsburgh to NJ which was set atop a similar trailer. The boat was well balanced, but the thing sat on only two long 2x4 bunks and bunk brackets and the former owner had bolted those roller bunk strips on top of the wood. There was also a series of keel rollers down the middle. Most of the weight seemed to be on the rollers. The boat was about 2' too long for the trailer, and the trailer put the keel of the boat about 28" off the ground. The trailer had three 12" wheels, and one 15" wheel to make it even more interesting. Even so, the thing made it all the way home without incident. It actually towed pretty decent on the turnpike even though it certainly was far above and beyond what I felt comfortable towing with my Ford Ranger. The trailer had no brakes, never had them, and it had a GVW of 7700lbs on the frame sticker. The guy that gave it to me was in Ohio, he met me about half way, and towed the thing to Pittsburgh about 200 miles or so with a Jeep Cherokee. The guy had bolted trailer lights right to the hull, as was his license plate, which I left on to get it home. He had a combination of rope and several light ratchet ties holding the boat on. Plus some duct tape here and there to hold cabinets shut, protect straps, etc. When we switched it to my truck, he took his tie downs and I secured it to the trailer with four large 2" wide ratchet straps and two smaller ratchet straps holding the bow eye to the winch post. It had two nice transom tied downs on it which he left. My concern was it coming forward and hitting my truck, no falling off.
Believe me, I wouldn't have missed the boat if it fell off, it would have saved me getting rid of it. I only wanted the trailer for another boat I had. The trailer was originally built with 205/15 tires, not the miss matched set it had on it. When I got it back home, I realized that both equalizer bars were seized and it had 7 broken leaf spring leaves.
The wheel bearings were shot, well lubed but pitted badly, and the tilt mechanism was stuck open. The only thing holding the trailer down was the weight of the boat and the rope tying it down. I actually took a few back roads on the way home in hopes of maybe losing it but no such luck, the thing wouldn't budge off that trailer even once I untied it.
It wouldn't even roll or slide off the trailer at work, we had to use an excavator to pull it off the trailer and bust it up. There was no way it was just falling off. I'd venture to guess that it would have made the whole trip home even if it weren't tied down at all.
When I tried to dump the boat, I had backed up full speed and slammed on the brakes in the parking lot at work, all it did was lock up the trucks brakes and drag the truck backwards till it stopped. The boat never moved. In the end I got a free trailer that only cost me a tank of gas and a set of used wheels and tires when it was all done. I later converted it to a full roller trailer.

 

[mike343]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I take exception at Bond-o's 10-15%. Every BOAT trailer (not horse trailer or travel trailer) manufacturer specifies 5-10%. (Yeah the truck guys say 10-15% but they don't know what you are going to tow.

You definitely need brakes. The boat looks heaver than 4000 lbs to me. Are you sure of the weight. There should be markings on the trailer giving max gross weight and max load rating. I think you mayneed a different trailer that fits the boat.

 

[starcraftkid]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

Keep in mind that the guy that had that trailer may only have used it once in a blue moon. Sometimes you can deal with a not so perfect trailer if it's only going to hold the boat in the off season. If your looking for something to launch and load every week, find a better match to your boat. If all you need is a way to get it home when the season is over, you should be fine. I'm with the other posts in regards to the height, at that height, plan on your truck getting all four wheels wet, and then you still may have problems.

I had a trihull years ago, far lighter than your boat that sat atop a flat frame trailer like that. The keel sat nearly 30" off the ground. On the plus side, I could launch and load with the drive down with no concerns but the simple task of getting on and off the trailer was a nightmare and could only be done at high tide at the very steepest ramps. Which meant I had to drive an additional 20 miles out of my way to launch that boat. I traded that trailer for a very wide full roller V hull trailer and dropped the keel down to about 11" of the ground. This meant I had to tow with the drive all the way up, but I could launch in knee deep water. My truck no longer got wet, nor did my trailer hubs most of the time.

 

[Johnny Be Cool]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

I know this post is getting rather long, but I appreciate everyones opinion.
I have yet to attempt to put the trailer on the boat. I am keeping it at the covered Slip until I'm sure what to do.

I've purchased new Keel Rollers and 12" & 10" Bolster Bunk Braces. Now from further studying, I think I'll need 10" L shape braces mounted sideways supporting a 2x12 or 2x10 close to the inner fender and use 10" bolster braces w/ 2x6's mounted under the moter mount stringers.

I don't feel comfortable putting the boat on stands then sliding the trailer underneath. I'll be doing it myself.

I did make a good template of the transum, I feel I can get the trailer bunks setup up pretty good

The trailers capacity is 5900lbs. It has 4 leafs per tire and the tires are 14"

I will be towing it with a F-350 4x4 Dully Crewcab.

The height of the last keel roller w/o the boat on it is 23"
Too HIGH or acceptable?

I measured 6'-5" from the center of the tandem wheel base to the last crossmember. (freeisforme) suggested going back 30" {By the way I did enjoy your story about tring to lose the boat.}

If I move the wheel base back 30" will that get me close to a starting tounge weight of 10-15%. Then I can fudge it a little to get the desired proportion.

 

[freeisforme]

Re: Did I buy the wrong trailer

There's no way to determine what your tongue weight will be other than a somewhat educated guess at this point. The best you can do is set it up as close as possible and hope you guessed right. The one thing you don't want it to have the boat on the trailer and the trailer wanting to tilt backwards due to the weight of the motor and drives.
Make real sure everything will adjust easily before loading the trailer. You'll thank yourself later.

As far as the 23" keel height, take that, plus the amount of your hull which is submerged while afloat, and that will give you an idea of how deep you will have to go to get the boat off the trailer Chances are you will need 340" or more of water to float that boat off the trailer. If it were a lighter boat, I'd not be nearly as concerned, but face it, if it don't float off, you just ain't going to push it off the trailer like you would a light aluminum hull boat.

I'd take a good look at the ramps you plan to use, look at how far out you need to go to get into deep enough water, and where the ramp ends. I've been in the situation where I was out of ramp and the boat was far from floating with no other options left. Unfortunately we all deal with some really poorly designed boat ramps these days.