did I suck something up to stall out ????

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Thanks dave for the info those are head gaskets covers i need the gaskets for the Head covers i just went up to the store and bought some mterial and cut them out my self got a good fit and now all i have to do is put them on and give it a test and see how she will run. I already boutght the gaskets that you emailed me and they were the first ones i put on when i found water in the cylinder. Thanks for the good looking out i will let you know how the homemade gaskets work out.
 

djzyla1980

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Yeah... let me know... I now know which ones your talking about...and have wondered the same. I will be interested to see how it works for you....
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Dave, just finished taking the muffs off of the boat i Ran it for about 5-7 mins she sounded good just a little trouble getting her to stay running i cranked her over and she ran for 4 sec then shut off i started her up again and all was well. I took the boat to the ramp to see how she would run i did not forget the plug this time. Well i started her up and the motor did not sound like it was running very well i gave it some gas and she cleanded up her sound i let off and the motor sounded like it was dying and then it did i started her up again and the same thing happened. I am glad to report that the homemade gasket is working nicely no leaking what so ever. Well back to the new prob. i turned her off and took her back home i put her on the muffs and seemed to be running fine i left her on the muffs for about 10 minutes put her in reverse and in forward as well and there were no problem is there a difference when you have a boat on muffs and when you have it sitting in the water. Also i noticed that the fly wheel was a little loose. this is my fault becasue when i had it off i did not tighten it all of the way this in turn wore the Flywheel key down a bit but is still in good condition i will be ordering one any way. Well i am making progress on this boat but its two steps forward and one back. better than the other way around.
 

djzyla1980

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Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

The difference is running on the muffs... there is no backpressure on the exhuast... When one sets up the idle.... they shoot for about 1000rpm's on the muffs... which would end up putting it at about 700 in the water. Your flywheel being loose is probably the cause of your problem. As the flywheel moves out of its needed direction, it's causing you to throw the timming out of wack ocasionally. This can also cause you to have a sheard flywheel key which would totally throw your timming off. Be sure to tighten the flywheel to specs... I believe 105 lbs. <br />I just replaced head gaskets and noticed an increase in compression. I will have to adjust the idle speed on mine as it revs much higher now during idle. Might Have to adjust the idle a bit and tighten that flywheel(If the flywheel can move with the key while tightening...It can mess with timming...not uncommon for them to shear at low speeds if not tight)... but all should come out good =o)<br /><br /><br />I gave up ordering them... Found a piece of steel layin around same thickness and started cutting my own. Cut a square out and then grind it down to exact size with bench grinder.
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

I believe i may make my own key as well. Well i took the boat out to the dock and gave it a turn before i was completly done turning the key the engine was turning. I noticed as well that the engine was running a little bit higher on the rpms. I took the boat off of the trailer to see how it ran in the water. put it in reverse and no problems not even a really hard kick like some boats have. I started to reverse my way out of the dock and then put the girl i fwd not problems the rpms were still a little high but no the less the boat was working just fine. I almost got out of the now wake chanel and she kicked off. not quite sure why i turned the key and started right up again gave her a little gas and seemed fine then turned off again. This time i tried to start her up again, and nothing the flywheel is turning but with much preasure. I am not sure what this could be however i know the gaskets are not leaking and that it seems to be (and this is a guess from a newbie) that maybe somethign might be wrong with the crankshat or bearings. i have no clue but the boat will not turn back over but for a second even when i give it gas it just dies. the good part of the day is some old dude gave me a lift back in on his jet ski. Must be nice to have a running watercraft. LOL
 

djzyla1980

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

On the keys... just make sure there not stronger then the flywheel or Crank... they are meant to shear if need be. In other words if you can't cut, drill, or grind it... DON'T use it. <br /><br />So crank and flywheel turn when you turn the key, but it seems though it's turning hard??? It's not locking up again is it??? Can you turn the flywheel by hand as easily as before you took it out to the lake? remember it is under compression now. Did you have a strong battery?? <br /> <br />I was out on the lake and this (had to be 75)old man comes up and asked how the waters were... told him my impression.. watch him go to the dock and he gets on a jet ski and drives off.... I about fell over =o)<br /><br /><br />Has it ran since the probs at lake? Try spraying some pre-mix into the carbs from a spray bottle (cleaned out windex etc.) and post the results..
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Dave, I just went back to look at the boat. went to give it another try and it seems like the flywheel is locking up again. I tried to turn the flywheel again by hand. Ok so now i am pissed but not giving up. I went and pulled the heads off to see is some how water got into the heads again. I pulled them and no water appeared to be in them. I checked the gaskets out they looked good seeing as they are new. I have a question i looked at the gaskets before i put them on the first time and put them back on the way i thought the olds ones were on and i think the engine would have over heated if i were to put them on backwards so i really feel like that is not an issue. My question is what is locking up the fly wheel i know the lower unit is good, so could it be the crankshaft itself messing up i am dreading the thought alone. <br /><br />Well cannot get over the old man on the jet ski good for him hope i can get on the water before i turn 75 lol. <br /><br />Is it possible for water to get into the crankshaft besides the heads?
 

djzyla1980

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Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

I really hate to think Of this but the first thing that comes to mind is bad bearings on the connecting rods. Someone might come along and give you some different input but it sounds like that to me. Due to the fact that Comp checked out good and no scoring on cylinder walls it rules out the rings/pistons. <br /><br />What do you know about the history of this motor??
 

FLbound

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
8
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Yes I am on the same page as you. I either thought that it could be the connecting rod berings or the crankshaft berings. I turned it in the mourning after spraying some WD40 in the cylinders over night and its still very much locked up and when i put enough preasure to turn it there seems to be a slight grinding felt on the flywheel. I am not happy right now but i got to me seems like a good deal on the boat even if the motor didnt even come with it. <br /><br />Ok so now it sounds like a complete engine break down is in order? i have never taken apart an outboard to this extend. If it turns out to be the berings is the motor worth repairing at this age i am not sure how much connecting rod berings are but i know crankshaft berings are around 340.00 plus i will need all new gaskets is there anything special tool wise I will need to do this. Also i am pretty good a sticking with a project, but is this one above me.<br /><br />I have a clymers manual for this engine, however i dont really care to use it seeing as it covers about 20 different engines and not to specific to my needs are there any other manuals that would be helpful to my needs.<br /><br />ALso like the picture of the kids must be nice to take them out on the boat.
 

djzyla1980

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Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

um... yeah it is nice.. we went out with just the kids the first times.. until it got to running right... Took about 3 months... still has it's probs.. but for the most part it's doin good<br /><br /><br />From the looks of the breakdown in my manual on a typical V4... it's not all that complicated. With the only special tool required for the wrist pins. It would only affect you if you had to take the wrist pin off... and sometimes a sub can be found with simple tools at home with some mods. <br /><br />I bought my boat and motor for a great deal ($100) not knowing how or even if the motor ran let alone seeing it in person before buying it. I didn't even have a clue on the history. I went into the project with this in mind: Expect the worste. Even if the motor was not fixible, and had to dump it.. the boat was still worth it and visa versa. If the motor was fixible and even if it took me rebuilding the power head at least I would then know exactly what has been done to the motor. I was in no position to purchase a new motor and since I don't trust "runs good" used motors just knowing that was worth the cost. I could buy a newer used motor and still be stuck doing the same work on it. Most Shops around here don't guarantee used motors. The test compression and start it up, if it runs they sell it. Lets say I spent $900 on a used unit, and then ended up dumping in another $600 in the next few years to replace bad parts, I have now spent $1500 and can still question it's life and history. So I spent $100 (we'll say boat was free) and I've put about $500 into it to get it to this point. Even if I have to go through the power head and replace rings, bearings etc, lets say $600, thats $1200 and I know Exactly what has been done to it, still saving $300. My motor is a 1970 115 evinrude 35 years old. Is it worth $1200, no, but knowing what exactly has been done to it is, to me, worth the $1200. I now as I stand I would have a hard time selling my good running 1970 electric shift evinrude for $600. I do not have the $1200 to go out and buy a different motor, and from the looks of things a new one under warranty is alot more then that. It could also be I'm a glutton for punishment. I did the same to a 25' camper that needed work. Drove 14hours one way to pick it up, only going by pictures. Got it back and put a big woopin $200 in it, Good deal yes. I look for these things, Find them and fix them. This is my hobby and knowing that I completed the project is the outcome. When one project is done I look for another. There not to sell although I have done this and most of the time came ahead. I enjoy fixing and tinkering and doing things my way. I could have bought a newer camper that didn't need work, But I would not have done it. I could have bought a boat that didn't need much work, But the work to me is the fun part, and it's done the way I want it to be done. Cars, trucks, campers, boats It is this obsession I have. I have done many of the listed. Drives the wife nuts cause she never knows what I'm going to bring home but it keeps me happy so she is.<br /><br />I guess what I'm trying to say it depends on if you want fix it. What is this worth to you and if you have the money to buy new. Everytime we buy something used we roll the dice. Sometimes we win and other times the dealer does. If it were mine, I'd fix it. You very well could get 30+ years out of that motor, as I'm hoping for another 30+ outta mine.<br /><br />and the gaskets, I'm sure theres a kit from BRP. Call an evinrude dealer to find out. My guess is there are some gaskets in that kit Seirra (who Iboats gets theres from) Don't carry.
 

FLbound

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Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
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Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Dave i feel that we are on the same page. I have done some much work on all of the cars that i have owned along with jeeps, trucks, everyone i know who knows nothing about anything i will try and help them out as well. I cannot stand to see someone get overcharged for a simple break change, or even minor engine repair. i have learned alot about motors i just dont want to get in over my head. I am going to try to fix this engine myself i dont have the money to buy another engine, and i look at it this way i will figure it out one way but it may not be as quickly as i want to, and you are right at least you will know what kind of work has been done to the engine. I am to stubborn and hard headed to have someone do a job for me. Its all good i like it that way. Well looks like i will half to wait till tomorrrow before i try to rip this motor apart (got to finish my duty day off on the good old USS Enterprise. <br /><br />Also what manual do you feel is best for the job as i stated earlier i own a Clymers and was wondering if selco or oEM were better for the project. <br /><br />Thanks for all the great replies.
 

FLbound

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Sep 15, 2005
Messages
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Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Oh To clear things up i am also FLBOUND because i stand duty every Eight days and need to use this Account name because i am on a Navy computer/
 

djzyla1980

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

As far as engine breakdown there both goin to say the same. If your clymer is anything like mine the trouble shooting sections bites but the breakdown pictures are good.I think you will do fine with the clymer.
 

FLbound

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
8
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Thanks for the support i will get back to you on the progress when i start. My wife is on my back to fix some things on her car guess i had better take car of the boss. <br />i will keep you up to date.
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Ok, Found some time to take the powerhead off, well try atleast. I got everything off, and ran into some trouble on the 6 bolts that connect the powerhead to the addapter. These bolts are shot there is no way to unbolt them the heads of the bolts have been rusted off and now i need to figure out how to get them off. I am going to look on line and see if they have anything that i can use to get these bolt out. any ideas on this as i am sure that there are many rusty bolt sitting on those older outboards. thanks for all of the help
 

sprouticus

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 12, 2005
Messages
208
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

I once got some bolts free that had busted heads by welding a scrap piece of metal to where the head was supposed to be. The scrap metal was large enough I could use it as a "wrench", or handle and spin the bolt out without any tools. One bolt was located in a place where I couldn't spin my "wrench" a full 360*, even if i shortened it up, so i welded a small rectangular piece of metal on it that I could use a crescent wrench on. These were large, industrial size bolts (8-10 inches long and almost an inch thick), and it took me a day or 2, plus at least one can of wd-40, but it worked. Not sure if your headbolts will be big enough, or be showing enough that you could do this......just an idea. YOur other option is to drill it out and re-tap(not recomended) There are tools you can buy that will dig into screws that have been stripped.......that might work too..........i dunno.............an expert may be able to help. It's too bad this happened on your engine head because I always find it helpful to heat up the metal with a torch before trying to losen any stuck bolts. I'm sure an expert will be able to give you a better solution.<br /><br />p.s. sorry about your motor, I just bought my first "big" boat this year, and had to replace the engine mid season, after spending mucho time and money trying to fix all the small problems with the first one.<br /><br /><br />good luck
 

djzyla1980

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
640
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

I would cut the heads off the bolts...Remove the power head, to give you more room.This would give you a "nub" left, about an inch. With those nubs heat them up pretty good and with a good pair of vise grips turn um loose. I've used this approach in autos... If the vise grips fail, then try grinding the nubs down to accomidate a wrench.
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

sounds great about the weld but, dont have my welder where i am at right now and dont have the time the power head has got to come off tomorrow. well i guess i will grind off the bolt heads off and then pull the power head off. <br /><br />I was not sure if the bolts were threaded all the way threw the adapter plate or just on the powerhead itself i figured they were not but who knows and i do know that i dont want to be the one that finds out the hard way. Thanks for the email.
 

Aquasport19.6

Seaman
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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
52
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

ok this ones going over 100 questions, because this one is another one. Its 2:41am i am cold tired and frustrated most of all i am playing some jimmy buffet and just came in the house from working on the boat. i invested in a dremal tool and yes i am impressed with it.<br /><br />I ground off what was left from all the bolts i had to hack off all but two and they were under the thermastat, well atleast i didnt half to try and get the dremal under there. I followed the directions on the manual word for word and now i am looking at ground off bolt and a powerhead that will not move for the life of me. I tried to pull where the lift eye from the flywheel is and that ended up at a dead end there is no play in this motor. I dont have a motor lift so i am not able to use that tool (unless that is the last resort. <br /><br />Well i sprayed some good old WD40 on the cut off bolts where there seems to be some buildup of some kind which is probably the reason this motor will not come off. Well i will try again a seven am. I was wondering if i could put some head on the remainder of the bolts and if not what should i do to get this powerhead off. Also how long should a boat sit until there is some stuff in the gas tank to keep the gas good? thanks to all who email me and keep me positive on the struggle with a 22 yr old motor. I am not going to give up on this one.
 

itstippy

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Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
Re: did I suck something up to stall out ????

Off to the hardware store with another $10. You want a super-penetrant to soak into the corrosion buildup between the powerhead and lower pan. WD40 is a decent penetrant, but PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench are better for what you're doing. You may have to let it soak in for a day or two. You also want a little bottle of Sta-Bil, a fuel stabilizer, to treat your gas. A super-penetrant and a fuel stabilizer are both very handy to have around, so this is $10 well spent.<br />I don't know about heat, never done it. I'd sure be tempted but there may be a good reason not to. Someone more knowlegable than me will let us both know.
 
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