*ding*...You've got oil

[bruceb58]

Here is a theory. The bellows leaked water. Water got into the drive shaft seal and made seal / o-ring go bad, from rust. That rust made that seal fail, and then allow water oil to get into the bellows area.

That is my theory as well.

 

[pantaloonz]

You guys are awesome. thank you

My theory was when the boat jumped off the trailer a few back the impact jarred the unit at the mating point and water was getting in there that way.

Then I made things worse by not fastening the dipstick washer properly when I checked gear oil.

Would the end result be the same ? If water got in through the gasket I assume it could easily penetrate into the bellows/universals as the shaft just kinda slides right in there.

I don't see evidence of gear oil leaking from that the shaft seal, it was the same goopy reddish-brown stuff that was on the first lip of the bellows I would have thought it would have left the o-ring area a little cleaner as water and gear oil was sloshy around it..

-Pantz

 

[pantaloonz]

does the pivot housing or transom mount,, or both have to come off to replace this bellows?

 

[skippy2235]

just pivot housing, really easy, Just need a torx 40 or 45 bit. I dont remember. Napa has in stock. 1/2 drive ratchet, and I used my long jack handle as leverage.
Torque is about 80 ft lbs.

 

[bruceb58]

Don't need a torx. 1/2" hex works fine.

Even says to use that in the manual. Section 6-3 Pivot housing removal.

 

[pantaloonz]

Stroke of luck, found a bellows kit at local hole in the wall... I'm off to get it.

Thanks for the tip on the tool. I promise to stop with the promiscuous posting for a bit .. I'll be replacing the bellows, reattaching the drive, filling up gear oil all tomorrow morning. I'll let all those seals, gaskets, connections sit for a day before she goes on the muffs for a test.

Thanks again for the awesome help thus far.

 

[bruceb58]

Do yourself a huge favor and buy an OEM bellows.

I don't think you have done a complete pressure test yet. You need to have it hold pressure before you put oil back in.

 

[skippy2235]

I did my PSI test WITHOUT oil in it.
I dont know what the manual says. but logic tells me if it holds air, it will hold oil.
I can see your idea, Put PSI on the oil and see if it stays, but I dont know for sure.
Just googled this:

1) Drain Oil from Outdrive (Procedure in Manual)
2) Build or Buy Tester (Adults Only Section or Ebay)
3) Pressure up to 15 PSI and Wait ( No drop in 24 hrs)
4) Vacuum Test to -15 PSI and Wait (No Drop in 24 hrs)

 

[pantaloonz]

I understand what he is asking, and yes the test is performed without oil in it.

I corrected a problem with my pressure testing fitting (it was actually where the air was esaping) drive has been at 10psi for about 3 hrs now.

I guess we'll see where it is tomorrow.

The u-joints have been cleaned up as far as I'm going to take them they are much cleaner, free of goop I can see the universal retaining pins, I can read lettering on them etc. the drive shaft looks fine.

I took a flashlight out tonight and shined it around the existing bellows, no light was escaping... of course that's not a fool proof test, but the light should be seen shining through weakended spot etc.. I also looked the bellows over pretty thoroughly, up down on the sides full up stretched out. I can't see a problem, in fact it looks pretty damn good, the seals all look really tight and nothign gives with pokes and prods.

I tried to add grease to the gimbal and the universal.. I think my grease gun is older than my boat.. is there a special tip for the grease fun required to provide grease to these components?

Also should I apply grease around where the universals are rotating..this is the drive shaft seal area..I think.. I know I need to grease up the drive shaft especially before trying to re-insert

-Pantz

Edit: Read section 6 of the OMC manual.. there is no shift cable bellows, no wonder I couldn't find one.

 

[pantaloonz]

interesting, I've watched a couple video of people removing outdrives, most videos show a bit of prying to get the upper unit off,.. is this due to use of gasket makers or adhesives?

I ask because my outdrive nearly slid off on it's own when it came off.

 

[Offrddrver]

Pantz,

First, good job on tackling this beast and all your battles on your own. Keep up the good fight. I had a mixed bag of issues when I bought my used boat, and have always managed to get through without the shop. As always, best of luck.

On my boat the first time I removed the outdrive it wouldn't budge because the drive shaft and motor were not properly aligned. I can also note that I always spray the OMC gasket glue on the gasket when it is mounted, so there is some resistance there, but that glue is not very strong.

On my first attempt my outdrive was so stuck from being out of alignment with the motor that it flat out would not budge by human hands. So, I reconnected the trim hydraulics and used the trim up to push outward on the drive and tapped the sides with a rubber mallet until it worked loose. Then I could pull it off by hand.

Now, I use the hydraulics every time to help guide out the drive. The hydraulics help hold the drive steady so I can work alone. Works great for me, but of coarse it is properly aligned now (and properly greased), so I only have to push out with the hydraulics enough to break the gasket glue.

I'll be removing my drive and replacing the Sierra u-joint bellows at the end of the month as I just found a 1/8th inch crack in my u-joint bellows. Cleaned it an repaired is short term with high flex RTV until the end of boating season. So I'm sure everything will be coated in surface rust again. (never ends....never ends)

BruceB58 noted to use an OEM u-joint bellows........I fully agree as this Sierra boot cracked after only two seasons of use (season here is February through October).
I'll be going back to the OEM bellows also, they seem to be thicker to me. To be fair to the Sierra bellows, I haven't had a change to look very close for pinch points or if something rubbed a hole in it. (my first u-joint bellows had a hole from the grease zirc shooting out through the boot)

Keep up the fight.

Offrddrver

 

[pantaloonz]

Thanks OffD,

We have similar ladies keeping us very busy. The lower unit is holding pressure. Just that in itself makes me feel a lot better

I'll be reinserting the drive today (hopefully) -- glad to hear that my engine is probably well aligned.

I just removed the prop down to the thrust bushing.. which.. by my untrained eye is not coming off.. nor do I think I want it to. The shaft and bushing seem to be in great shape no signs of corrosion or issues.

It's a major learning curve I wouldnt be able to do this without this site.

There was some water on the prop shaft right up the bushing. I don't see any gasket, o-ring or seal that would prevent that however.. it's just metal on metal connections... the shaft is in good shape though so I'm not sweating it.

Will let ya know how the insertion goes

-Pantz

 

[pantaloonz]

Hey!! Guess WHAT!!!

I was havig trouble getting my drive re-inserted.. look what came along for the ride when I pulled the shaft back out ..

That's not supposed to be there...*edit added picture

If I was a little less manly.. I would cry right now.

-Pantz

Guess I didnt use enough grease..no wonder I couldn't get all the way..

I'm not sure I'll ever find that wrench again....

 

[bruceb58]

Before you put on your drive, buy an alignment bar and check your alignment. This needs to be done yearly. Just because you can put the drive on does NOT mean it is aligned. If you don't do this, you will wear out your coupler and you will be pulling your engine.

Alignment bars can be bought on eBay for not much money.

When you did your pressure test, did you rotate the drive shaft? You had oil in your bellows right?. If so, that oil came from your drive which makes it very surprising to me that it is holding pressure.

 

[pantaloonz]

Hi Bruce,

Aww . No snarky comments about tearing the gimbal off? ..

Rotated shaft 180 degrees at beginning of test but not when I pulled off testing gear this AM.

There was water and grease in the bellows. The lip of the bellows had reddish brown gunk on it.

When I applied grease to gimbal fitting I watched inside. ..old grease oozed out from the bottom then old grease oozed from the middle.

I guess grease shouldn't be coming from anywhere but into the middle of the bearing ?

Grease first issued up from roughly the 5 - 6 o clock position on the front face of the bearing.

Probably should be posted right then but the documents stare you can watch the old grease get pushed out by the new...probably not along the bottom edge? Hahaha

Alignment I had no problems lining the splines of the shaft I have numerous bars and rods but not not a bar with splines..however a bar just a bit smaller in diameter glides in and out with ease.

-- I know I'm a novic3 but the darn bearing came out on the shaft that's a pretty strong indication my bind point was there? Yes?

 

[bruceb58]

You need an alignment tool and it needs to be the correct dimensions. An alignment tool does not have splines. This needs to be precise. Buy the correct tool. Just being slightly off will affect your coupler.

I didn't see the picture until now of the gimbal bearing coming out. Wasn't in your original post. What is the condition of the gimbal bearing? Does it spin smoothly?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alpha-Bravo...cts-/311144531809?hash=item4871a8c761&vxp=mtr

 

[pantaloonz]

Hi Again Bruce!

Yup the bearing rotates quite nicely (after I tapped it off the shaft hahaha)

Thank you for the link to the alignment tool, so the gimbal bearing has to align with the grease fitting on the outside, then the inside must be rotated perfectly for a correct mating to the coupler? -- can't believe I didn't think of that .. HAHAHA

Based on the picture I've included above it would appear I got past that. I just got hung up on the Drive Shaft going through the bearing (nothing to do with the coupler??) and the U-joints not being greasy enough to pass the lip of the bellows.

Of course now that I've yanked the bearing.. it'll be nigh impossible to get that alignment correct again

I've watched a couple videos of different people removing and reinserting their outdrives, some with grease some without. not a single mention of the position of the gimbal bearing, even the darn OMC manual is so vague "the bearing or engine must be repositioned" GRRRR

The video instructions of a merc-cruiser inseration did show an audible "thud" when the gimbal aligned with the coupler.

Ok then...

Thanks everyone for all the help. I think I have to throw in the towel and will call the marina for their estimate.

Bruce and others I hope you don't feel I've wasted your time because I've learned an immense amount from you guys.

-Pantz

not lost all hope.. just pretty aggravated at the moment.

 

[bruceb58]

Alignment is not just the angle of the bearing carrier, it is also the height/angle of the engine coupler. You may have to lower/raise the front of the engine to get correct alignment.

You are actually doing better than I thought you would do when you first posted.

 

[pantaloonz]

hahaha

My wife, the boss has a favorite saying amongst our friends.

If you need something fixed and don't want to pay for a service call, give my husband the manual, or a you tube video and he'll do it.

one thing that consistently fries my gourd is vendor specific tools and undocumented information!

 

[skippy2235]

If that bearing turns smooth, I would wire wheel the rust off bearing, and scotch bright the area the bearing sits, and use some wood to re-install it.
After you re-install it, check alignment with tool, and then move FWD.
If it came out the hole, it will go back into that hole.
I would also pop the seal off the side of bearing and add some grease to the race and balls, then re-install side seal.