Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

[BillP]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Oh contrare. Todays fuels have an affinity to moisture and junk. Just my experience with huge volumes of it.

I don't speak from "experience with huge volumes" of gas. I only speak from having 30+yrs experience storing ob motors...usually without stabilizer. Storage spans have been from months to 16 yrs. I can't count how many times (50?) I pulled carbs to clean them and they were spotless. The ones with tanks were usually stored with full tanks and carbs run dry or left full...but I've tried it all different ways. Fuel is usually rank after a yr or (most recently) either evaporated to a sludge with the consistancy of contact glue. I've tried to find fact from hype. I avoid E10 so can't comment about it personally.

Currently on my work bench (along with Stabil, SeaFoam, OMC Tuner, Startron, Techtron and a multitude of other products) is my own empiracle testing of Startron to see if it disolves varnish AS ADVERTISED. Check the pic. I dropped 2 screws in a cup and submerged them in straight Startron for a week (and time continues). 1 screw is coated with gooey varnish sludge from gas that sat 10yrs in a vented ob tank and the other is clean screw to show what it should look like when clean. All the gas was evaporated and the sludge was as thick as the stickest caulking compound you could ever find. Contrary to Startron's written advertising (hype at this point) there was no (zero, nada, none) change after sitting a week covered with the stuff. Repeating...No disolving, no break down, no change at all. It was no different than when first pulled from the tank a week ago.


So whatever floats your boat but gas doesn't lose enough octane to tell or settle out after sitting 6 weeks from the pump. It doesn't happen that fast.

 

[rick48cj2a]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Bill,
Interesting test, however, for it to have more credence you really need to test the product as advertised. I don't think they claim that the fuel stabilizer should be used by itself to clean the varnish and gunk from the system, do they? If the product is used and tested as advertized such as putting the screw into the tank of a running motor, with the stabilizer and fuel properly mixed, were it would get the vibration and motion associated with a running engine, then you would have a more valid test. Chemicals must be mixed in their prescribed quantities to perform as intended. But even that would only prove that the stabilizer either would or wouldn?t remove the particular gunk that was on the screw and nothing else.

As for fuel breaking down, that test would be better performed using untreated and treated fuels and comparing their performance and constancy after prolonged storage.

I?ve taken a lot of carburetors apart that were stored without a stabilizer and found them horribly sludged up. I had a lawn mower for over 20 years. Every year for the first 5 years after storing over the winter I had to take the carb apart, clean out the gunk, drain and refill the tank to get it up and running again. After I learned of fuel stabilizers I never needed to do it again. Was mine a controlled test? No, just my own personal experience. Maybe something else changed in the fuel I was buying, or in the ventilation of the shed. I don?t know. I can say that I have yet to find this sludge in a carburetor that was using a fuel stabilizer. That doesn?t mean it doesn?t happen, it just means I haven?t found one yet. Keep up the good work.
Rick

 

[rjezuit]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Startron is 95% naptha. With some vibration that should dissolve the gunk you have. Just sitting there, the solvent gets diluted locally, and does not work as well. Rick

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Not to mention the fact that the main purpose of Star Tron, no matter what they claim in additon, is to treat E10 against the effects of separation from water absorption, as well as a biocide. This product was originally a biocide for Diesel tanks, they have adapted it for gas, with some added functions.

It is by no means a decarb or stabilizer solely, nor does it claim to be.

 

[BillP]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Reality of StarTron's advertising is in the 12 page booklet that comes with every bottle. A few (but not all) of the claims are: dissolves gum and varnish, removal of water and a fuel stabilizer.

Also, less than 1 hr ago I put another sample of the same sludge into straight SeaFoam. After 30 minutes it's already dropping off to the bottom of the container and turning to mush.

 

[1730V]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

30 years of fixing outboards for me too. All I'm saying is that todays fuels seem to have an affinity for moisture, etc.

Stabilizers are much cheaper and more convenient than carb rebuilds.

Stick with a major brand and trouble can be avoided. I'm sure there are many good ones, I just use what I know and have experience with.

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Rick48cj2a I agree . Fuel stabilizer is just that. (stabilizer) not carb cleaner. I found that to clean that brown Green sludge from carb. soak it in methylhydrate . Soak carb for an hour in it then blow parts off. Spray with wd40 blow off again. It is the mercury that they put in fuel these days instead of lead that causes the gas to rot so fast. Member when you could store gas for years and it was almost as good as new? Of course the engines those days were also more forgiving.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

"If you look at the MSDS's for all the stabilizers mentioned they are all a mixture of naptha and isopropyl alcohol. Both of these are available much cheaper than the name brand products. Stabil is 95% isopropanol, while sea foam and the other listed are very high percentage (95%) naptha. Rick"

The MSDS for Stabil says that it is 95% petroleum distillate. How does one get 95% isopropanol from that?

http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msds/docs/wcd00020/wcd02095.htm

The SeaFoam MSDS does state that it has Isopropyl alchohol [IPA], but not 95% by a long shot:

http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_DC14_US.pdf

http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf

I think that it says IPA is 10-20% by weight. Naptha is a petroleum distillate.

Edit: Just for clarification on the Stabil product, I emailed the company and asked. Here is the response from the company by Tom Wicks [TWICKS@goldeagle.com].

"Hello Walter!

The Carrier solvent, for Sta-Bil is High Flash Point Petroleum Distillate


Tom Wicks
Product Engineer Manager"

 

[rjezuit]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

This is where I got my information from. 95% isopropanol. Rick
http://www.warrendistribution.com/msds2/00001240.pdf

 

[rjezuit]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Here is the MSDS on Star tron, 95% naptha.
http://www.starbrite.com/msdssheets/93008-msds-10-7-06.pdf
So on 2/3 I was correct. The seafoam is 60% oil and the rest is naptha and isopropyl alcohol. (40%) The point I was trying to make is that alot of these stabilizers/cleaners have very common ingredients that are easy to find and cheaper. You can "make" 2 quarts(64 oz.). of seafoam for less than $6.00, instead of $6.00 for 12 ounces. Rick

 

[PhatboyC]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Very good thread here guys. Informative, picture and hard data. Keep it up.

 

[PhatboyC]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

E10 is I believe ethyl or methyl alcohol, and the IPA is isopropyl. All alcohols, but with diffrent properties. Rick

Even if it's a different type of Alcohol, the Ethanol in our E10 gas does still carry the water out. Right?

 

[wavrider]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

I recently tested acetone to remove sludge and varnish gum deposits from a carb, keep in mind had to remove all washers, nylon parts etc, it cleaned the varnish off the carb bowls quickly, blew with compressedd air, then wd 40 then again compressed air. worked great

 

[patrick4266]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

where can i get sea foam and how much is it?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

NAPA stores carry it here. Iboats sells it online, but you would probably need to buy quite a bit to justify the shipping cost. http://www.iboats.com/Sea_Foam_Moto...90519482--list_time.1202840629--view_id.37968

 

[patrick4266]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

thanks I will try napa

 

[kynolan2183]

Re: Do I need Sta-Bill/fuel stabilizer ??

Not being an employee for 20 years in the oil and gas industry I can tell you that the automotive petrol we purchase today is junk.

It goes bad in a hurry. Thats why I keep the size of my tanks small. 6 gallons or less and if it sits for 2 weeks because of rainy weekends it is poured into the boy's gas can. He uses it for the mower, weed eater, and even his two stroke mini bike. And when he is being really cheap I have seen him use it in his 4 stroke go cart. Runs a little crappy but but hey he didn't have to walk up to the county store and spend his allowance on gas.

Kyle