Do I pay up or fight this?

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Just pay the "court cost" (about 80-100 bucks) and take defensive driving online. It is the easiest option.<br /><br />But if you have a lot of free time, fight it. Even if you lose, you should be able to still take defensive driving.<br /><br />Ken
 

Copespitter

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
80
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

You can beat it.<br />I just beat a speeding ticket here in CA. Didn't even have to go to court. Just mailed the court my not guilty plea and then they sent me a form so I could write my explanation.<br />About 45 days later they mailed me a not guilty plea.<br />If Texas is anything like CA you won't beat it in court. I went to court for a seatbelt ticket about a year ago and everyone out of the 50 or so contesting their ticket lost including me.<br /><br />Court is overtime for cops and they always show up. The courts have a strapped for cash attitude these days and besides I don't think the judges like to rule against the officer in court for the fact that it makes the cops look bad.<br /><br />There is plenty of information on the net on how to beat tickets. <br /><br />Hopefully TX will allow you to do a trial by declaration so you won't ever have to step foot in court.<br /><br />The cop forgetting to have you sign the ticket might be enough to get this thing tossed.<br /><br />Whatever you do don't fight it in court with the officer present. Trial by decleration is the way to go.
 

Andrew Leigh

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
431
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

JB,<br /><br />don't know about in the US but here there is a code of practice regarding the use speed detection devices. I have got off numerous fines because the traffic officials have disregarded their own code. To give you some examples;<br /><br /><br />- The operator must be in possession of a valid operators certificate.<br /><br />- The equipment must have been calibrated and must have a valid calibration certificate.<br /><br />- There must be a valid court order to trap in the specific area.<br /><br />- There are many rules regarding being near large steel objects and power lines as these can cause spurious readings depending on the type of instrument.<br /><br />Like you I was guilty but on the premise that you should not break the law to catch someone I have fought and won. Unfortunately one needs to ask the questions at the time of the the offense.<br /><br /><br />Cheers<br />Andrew
 

LadyFish

Admiral
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
6,894
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Tell the judge you were just trying to keep up with the flow of traffic. ;) <br /><br />Good luck JB.<br /><br />ob, great to see you back! :)
 

Elmer Fudge

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,881
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Whatever action you take it will cost you financially, fighting the ticket will cost you a lot of wasted time and effort, not forgetting the stress of dealing with the rigmarole and very likely, the possible incompetence of another "hard working and underpaid govt' employee". <br />There are times when one loses even if one wins, this is one of those times.<br />I say pay the ticket and forget about it.<br />Go and buy yourself a lotto ticket, the jackpot went up again ;)
 

dolluper

Captain
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
3,907
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Here in Canada if you go to court and say you were overtaking a vehicle[as it seems you were] they let you exceed the speed posted limit approx 7 miles over so your cost will drop alot,I would go to court just on principal as you seemed to be singled out,find out why atleast if the cop even shows up
 

rwise

Captain
Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

ok I speed, when I get a ticket that I deserve I pay it, however, if I disagree with the ticket I fight it, just explain my facts to the judge, and every time I have contested a ticket I won! Most I pay, ok I have slowed down, can't afford to get a ticket at there cost now days!
 

badandy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
46
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

I have paid my speeding tax before but here is my insite from not a cop but a student learning to be a cop. IF it was a lazer gun they are acurate what ever he points at he gets the speed of when he pulls the triger. Radar now adays are usualy mounted on the car and reads everything. Both instruments should have had their calibrations checked at the begingin of the officers shift with that being logged in his daily log. In wisconsin first ticket is 11mph over. As a side note it sounds like the officer acted very unprofesional to you. Fight it if you feel he is wrong he could have had the lazer pointed at another vehicle depending on how busy he is he may not be able to show up in court.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

If he has a poor case he will not show up. He knows it is pointless to fight a losing battle. The most signicant thing about this is, as I understand it, a Highway Patrol Officer. The chances of prevailing against a Motor Officer (Highway Patrolman are in CA)is going to be an uphill battle. Being singled out is the luck of the draw and has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Be sure you know the language of the cite. There are certain things that make a citation void on the face. The actual speed is not one of them..... Maybe he just thought your "car" was ugly. ;) If you can get him to admit that he was out to get you then you may prevail on the why me, why me defense. That has worked in the past. Perhaps the greater good will be served by having a talk with the moder, er uh his supervisor. Good Luck.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

I bet the cop was an angry iboater who identified you by your description of the car. Where was tsxwinner when all this was going on? :D :D ;) :eek:
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

About 10 years ago I got a similar ticket here in rural Parker County. It said I was going 70 in a 55 zone. I contested it in court and got the charge reduced to 60 in a 55 zone. I think I could beat this one as well, but Ft. Worth is too far away and the best I could justly hope for is a reduction to 68mph in a 60 zone. I don't want the hassle or the cost.<br /><br />Well, here is what I have done.<br /><br />I have pled Nolo Contendere (not guilty but not contesting the charge) and asked for a deferred judgement (probation) based on mitigating circumstances. I submitted a letter explaining what happened in more detail than above and asking for mitigation of the charge as well as deferral.<br /><br />What could I get? Heck, I don't know, but here is what I think: <br /><br />Best case, reduction of the charge to 68mph and probation with Court costs. Maybe some conditions on the probation.<br /><br />Worst case, Guilty. No reduction, no probation, big fine and court costs.<br /><br />I will let y'all know what happens.<br /><br />Thanks for your input, folks. It cleared my mind.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Originally posted by LadyFish:<br /><br />ob, great to see you back! :) [/QB]
Thanks LadyFish,it's been a while. :)
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Hey, ob's from Corpus . . . I lived in Portland for a year when I was 10. Went through the Hurricane Celia deal that year. '69? Sorry for the Hijack JB, but I love Corpus!!
 

Nos4r2

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 12, 2004
Messages
1,533
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

so, if you go to court and say you were doing 68mph you're still guilty? <br /><br />Over here if they get the wrong reading then you can't be guilty-whatever speed you were doing.<br /><br /> If he says you were doing 70 and you were doing 105 (for example)you can't be found guilty.As long as you can show inaccuracy in the speed detection device then you could have been doing any speed-it's the fact that the detection device is potentially inaccurate and therefore cannot give a reliable reading of speed that matters.<br /><br />Proving it is the problem-I'm sure DD or one of the other cops here can enlighten you on what certification is needed before the speed gun can be operated. If the cop can't produce all of this there should be no case to answer to.
 

deputydawg

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
1,607
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

The prosecution can file any speed they want UNDER the speed reading the RADAR showed. If you say you were going 68 then they might file 68. If you then fight that speed there would be no evidence of the speed, so it would never hold up....but the speed they did get on RADAR would, and the charge can be amended again.<br /><br />Certification, mainetenance records, yearly verification, daily calibration checks all should be presented in court for the evidence to be admitted. Otherwise there is no foundation. <br /><br />What probably happened is the officer clocked someone. The RADAR will catch the largest fastest moving vehicle. If the officer was watching his tracking history like he is supposed to do to correctly operate the instrument there would be no question. But he probably saw you change lanes, got a wpeed reading and assumed that you were passing therefore must be the speeding vehicle. The only other way to have an accurate reading is with a laser device. They can single out a vehicle in a corwd when RADAR can not. <br /><br />If you did not sign the ticket then you might win it, but you were served a copy which is a summons so you would still be aware of the court date and still be required to appear. A fail to appear charge probably wouldn't stick though. That would be a clerical error. Courts have ruled that clerical errors do not disqualify the case. The officer not asking you to sign means nothing. I could go through a traffic stop with out saying a word if I wanted. Nothing says they have to tell you your speed, tell you why you are stopped because it is written on the ticket. We do not have to explain the ticket or request a signature. That is just a courtesy to make sure the driver fully understands what is happening. <br /><br />The out to get you defense never works here. The judge is tired of hearing it. The harassment thing is also worn out with our courts. If there is evidence to prove guilt then that is it. If not then it is tossed. <br /><br />Some areas the officers will not show up for traffic court because the court never notifies them. The court will not waste money on traffic cases so they don't tell the officer, the officer stays home the case gets thrown out, and the officer not the court is to blame.<br /><br />Someonme said if it is a poor case they will not show up.....I would hope that if it was a poor case there would be no court. But of course out of the 2 million sworn officers in this nation, a few hundred are crooked enough to ruin all of our names so that is sadly the truth. <br /><br />It might be worth your time to go to court. If you tell them your speedo was saying under the speed he wrote, that will open you to cross asking what it read. They will counter with the speedo is wrong and not a valid defense. If you say GPS showed the same speed, it might work but GPS is not recognized in court as a speed measuring device because nobody has ever came in to prove it with technical facts. The best defense is to say there is no way to get a good clock on you, you were in a crowd of vehicles. Your ticket should say if it was RADAR, moving or stationary, Laser, Vascar whatever.<br /><br />Good luck and hoping for a good outcome for you.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Originally posted by deputydawg:<br /> The prosecution can file any speed they want UNDER the speed reading the RADAR showed. If you say you were going 68 then they might file 68. ...<br /><br />It might be worth your time to go to court...<br /> is worth every citizens time to go at least once to a traffic court whether you have been "invited" or not <br />
Thank you F Lee Bailey.\<br />
Someonme said if it is a poor case they will not show up.....I would hope that if it was a poor case there would be no court. But of course out of the 2 million sworn officers in this nation, a few hundred are crooked enough to ruin all of our names so that is sadly the truth.[
Guilty as charged, but that was not an aspersion on the officer, let alone a broadbased indictment. The question here is guilt or innocence and I think that has already been established and documented on these pages. <br />Your Comments are very troublesome and to my mind questionable. It proposes the same dichotomy that was created by the Miranda Decision.<br />Of course, we are not dealing with a capital crime so this comment maybe considered over the top. So much of what you comment on depends on local authority it is useless in Texas. In CA not signing a citation is due cause for transporting. I am not sure what would happen in my local area but I do know that I was stopped on a marginal offense and I refused to sign the ticket. The first thing the CHP officer did was to call his supervisor and he was dispatched. That back up happened to be a personal friend. We tried the case on the side of the road and If I had had someone to drive my car I would have gone with them. I was all set to fight but when the "courtesy notice" came my wife just sent a check. the details of this event are not routine, but everything that is associated with traffic is considered routine by the system. So I won't bother to explain.<br /> The key to prevailing in a traffic case is was the cite "righteous" made by a highly qualified officer or a matter of personal choice made by an officer you had the misfortune to encounter.<br />NO QUOATA RAY.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Thanks Dawg. That gives me a clearer picture of things.<br /><br />Didn't realize that the courts don't recognise GPS as the most consistently accurate speed measuring device.<br /><br />Because I am a Certified Master Electronics Tech and a BSEE I could probably explain why GPS is more accurate than any analog or partially analog device, including speedometers, RADAR, Vascar or LASER. Even if the Court accepted that they would still have to believe my statement about the GPS reading.<br /><br />Thanks for your input. :)
 

Johnshan1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Messages
739
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

After doing some high speed runs on my snowmobile on the lake, I looked at my max speed on the GPS- it said 125 mph. My snowmobile tops out at a touch over 100 on radar, if theres any lapses in the reception of the GPS it plays funky things ive seen...
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Mar 25, 2001
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45,907
Re: Do I pay up or fight this?

Have you considered the questionable accuracy of the RADAR, John? <br /><br />Was the GPS using WAAS? How many satellites was it recieving at the time? What model GPS was it? Most GPS recievers will not give you unreliable (interrupted or less than 3 satellites) data.<br /><br />With less than 3 satellites locked in and no WAAS GPS is unreliable and will tell you so.<br /><br />Lapses in reception may occur, but they only affect reception from one satellite at a time unless your GPS is broke.
 
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