Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

[bjcsc]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

I don't know anything about Pertronix. My ignition is a Delco EST. The ignition in my CJ-7 is a D.U.I. ( basically an H.E.I. ) I'm clapping because I have a spare ign. module in both. They're not expensive and I don't have to worry about a failure screwing up my and someone else's day. I don't have anything against points, I just think that if someone is looking to upgrade their ignition system they should consider upgrading to electronic.

 

[ron7000]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

The beefyness of a coil may or may not be the attribute which allows it to produce more spark energy. It's the internal resistance of it and how much voltage you apply to the + terminal of it which affects the spark output. That being said, if you got a beefy coil it probably won't be any better than your current coil because the limiting factor is you'll still be applying 9v to the coil. A points ignition is set up with a resistance wire dropping voltage to the coil, the purpose really to limit the current, which flows from there to the points. If you apply the full 12-14 volts to the coil, there will be more current which flows through it and the points and that's what cooks the points. So you could get more spark with the beefy coil on a points setup but it wouldn't be very long, or you'll get real good at changing points.

back to beefyness, if the coil has a lower internal resistance or advertises 40000 or 60000 volts then it probably will give greater spark energy compared to your current coil for whatever that's rated at. But be cautious on coils advertised as high output especially no name brands. They overheat and your ignition will cut out. Usually they get beefier because they need to dissipate more heat to provide the greater spark output, and that may be one way to tell you know what you're getting but that doesn't mean bigger is better. There's other attributes like saturation time which will make one coil better than another.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

The performance improvements may be negligible, but only having to check the timing each year is better than getting out all the crap to set the dwell.

In my opinion changing to electronic just makes for a more hassle free experience. I also carried an old point set with me and I could change either in pretty short time in an emergency. And if you can’t swap out a pertronix in bad seas you aren’t gonna change out points either. I never had an ignition failure with either that needed it though, so both are relaible in that sense.

Points will get you home and the electronic will get you home but if EITHER fail, you need SOMETHING for a spare, and points are just fine. Honestly though, how often do you need to replace an electronic vs. how often do you have to replace points? Points start to deteriorate as soon as you turn the key and they go to work. Leave the key on and they can be cooked. Every time the boat runs they are wearing out. That's why they gotta be changed every year, or more. The electronic buys you more time, usually (anything can fail), and that time can be better spent taking care of other things.

Points are cheaper per set, but my time is worth more. It's pointless to make a cost argument over permanent vs. wearable parts. That's like saying you can buy tires for 15.00 that last one year or you can buy tires that cost 70.00 that last 5. I don’t want to change my tires every year to save a few dollars now. I'll spend more over the long haul anyhow.

Mike

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

9 out of 10 people don't have a clue how it even works, why it works, or most think it like ya say, just a fancy machine that proves nothing. By the way, are you relieved that I will be turning your favorite juice maker (Mallorly FlatCap) into a clock ? Probably won't keep time anyway....8)

But----But----But---But Scatty, my battery has been working perfectly for 20 years! Now you and your fancy machine are trying to tell me that the battery that has worked for the last 20 years is why my engine won't crank over.
Just out trying to sell batteies aren't ya!!!!

Bet ya never heard any comment like that did ya

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

ANSWER MY PREVIOUS QUESTION!

Do you carry a SPARE Pertronix? Do you.. ?

If I can't change a Pertronix in 6 ft seas, how am I supposed to change the points?

You obviously have never installed a Pertronix.

Can't say I have, mainy because I don't trust them in my boat. Don't like mix and match. They cost just about as much as new, NEW, MATCHED components. Period. I know how they install..pretty damn easy. I've been stuck in some motor bay for 50 years. But take your head out of the clouds. If points fail, the $15 spare will get ya back. If the Pertronix fail, DO YOU CARRY A SPARE? Excuse me for having an opinion that might not agree with you.

Sorry for following the alleged Hi-Jack, however I believe the original poster wanted to know if there would be a benefit and somebody popped up and said with a change to electronic ignition.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

ANSWER MY PREVIOUS QUESTION!

Do you carry a SPARE Pertronix? Do you.. ?

Why would you? You carry a spare set of points becasue they are a wearable part that needs change-out maint like plugs rotor, water pump impellor etc. But an electronic is more like an altenator or starter. They are designed to last for years, even a lifetime, and you don't typically carry spares of those, although I know people will if they have them, and have space, and are out at sea for long periods of time, but those are exceptions. If you feel the need for backup simply carry a set of points.

Here's how I look at it:
If I run points all the time and carry a spare set, the liklihood of needing to install that spare set is a lot higher than if I carried that spare set and ran an electronic all the time. In the latter case I bet I never have to pull them out of the package.

M

 

[coalbucket]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

Some of you are worried over the simple Pertronix setup. I run a full MSD setup on my small blocks. Try changing that out will on the water.:$ But I would not give the setup up or anything else on the market today8)

 

[Buttanic]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

In all the years I have had cars, motorcycles and boats with point ignitions I never had a points failure, I have had several condenser failures mostly on new condensers just out of the box with only an hour or two run time. I don't worry about changing points at sea because most likely the problem will be the condenser or the coil. Both of which are easier the replace than the points or a Pertronics. Condensers are about $2 and a coil about $20. $22 for spares verses $80+ for Pertronic and I can get them at any auto parts store . In an emergency a little 400 grit sandpaper between the points will usually fix the problem long enough to get back to the dock.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

SCATTY, I was just responding to a statement you made.

BTW... How many screws have you fished out of the bilge while working in those 6 ft seas? 8)

My goodness, I don't know how some of you can ever drive a car without loosing your mind... how long has it been since points were actually used in autos?

Guess this will be another argument to list along with OIL and CRIMP or SOLDER

 

[mcleaves]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

I vote for oil being a good thing to use... That's just my opinion though

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

[colour=blue]I am also a big fan of pertronix.

The way I see it, beefy coils and elec ignition are very closely related.

Take pertronix for instance - quicker triggering (over points), more stable triggering (@ high rpm's) and automatic variable dwell adjustment. All this adds up to a hotter spark. A hotter spark is close to useless unless you play with plug/plug gaps and timing. Also, sometimes the coil is not up to the task of supplying the required voltage to utilise the pertronix.

 

[newport dave]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

I have done hours and hours of bench testing various marine ignition systems (including points vs Pertronix) to try to answer this question for myself.

My results were clear. A high performance coil can improve spark duration, and/or allow a larger plug gap. A switch to Pertronix Ignitor by itself will not gain you much other than giving you consistant performance, where points will wear and system performance will be gradually reduced.

The best ignition system performance gains will come from eliminating the ballast resistor or resistor wire and using an electronic ignition with variable dwell (Pertronix II, not Pertronix I), with a matching coil and good low reisistance plug wires.

Dave

 

[Buttanic]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

SCATTY, I was just responding to a statement you made.

BTW... How many screws have you fished out of the bilge while working in those 6 ft seas? 8)

My goodness, I don't know how some of you can ever drive a car without loosing your mind... how long has it been since points were actually used in autos?


Guess this will be another argument to list along with OIL and CRIMP or SOLDER

KaGee, here's the deal, I notice you are in Ohio, I don't know what waters you boat on but I dought you are ever more than a couple of miles from shore and generally calm water. For your type of boating electronic is fine, probably if I was where you are I would be electronic too, but alot of my boating is 20 + miles out in the ocean in a single engine boat. Bad things can happen quick out there and you best be able to deal with it. For me the best way to deal with it is to keep things as simple as possible and there isn't anything simpler then a point ignition. I change points and condenser every year so it is like a new system every year, I don't wait for it to fail while I am 20 miles out but if it does I am prepared to fix it. I believe this is am issue that inland boaters don't have any idea about, they just call the towing service to tow them a few miles back to the dock. I don't have time nor do I want to wait for someone to come and get me when I am 20 offshore because like I said bad thing can happen quick out there.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

I was only 14 miles out last week... on Lake Erie.
Six footers here are alot different than the six footers you get in the Gulf.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

I was only 14 miles out last week... on Lake Erie.
Six footers here are alot different than the six footers you get in the Gulf.

??? how are they different

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

60 miles out, off the coast of Washington yesterday, CG responds in the chopper to a frantic MayDay, CG finds 3 guys clinging to an ice chest. Hell with the boat I imagine, but they saved the beers.
Peace...lets end this...I agree with all , and all have valid points (pun intended!)
Now I'm off to find a good oil argument... 8)

 

[KaGee]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

Butanic, the waves here are tight and more choppy. 6 footers here, you'd be too busy clinging on to something to work on anything. I'll go out in 3-4's, anything else is unpleasant.

SCATTY.... i'm with you bro... synthetic or refined? :devil: 8)

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

i'm with you bro... synthetic or refined

Amazing how the price of gas has gone through the roof, yet oil stays about the same.
Hmmmm........
(I knew this would turm into a oil question sooner or later...They ALL do...even when they start out with big fat coils!
8)

 

[AdamB]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

This is really off the subject, but couple years ago I got stranded out on the ocean with my 21' Wellcraft with 350/alpha one, thunderbolt ignition. I thought sure it was ignition related because the motor just would almost fire, backfire etc. Ended up blowing off an exhaust hose below the port riser. Found out there was no flapper in there (I bought the boat used), and every slap of a wave sent water pouring into my bilge. Coast Guard told me as long as my bilge pump was working, they wouldn't even launch (and didn't), they sent me a tow. Well, I just anchored, and fished for a couple hours until the tow boat got there. Luckily I carry a hot box in case of dead batteries and the pump worked awesome. Anyhow, after lots of $$ for a tow (which my homeowners paid later), it ended up being a faulty corroded ignition switch. Go figure. The electronics held in there fine, but the damn igniton switch failed :|

 

[AdamB]

Re: Does a beefy coil give you more spark?

Speaking of gas prices, I was in the bay last year in Jersey and decided to add a few gallons so my fishing trip wouldn't end in another tow, wow, I can't believe how REALLY expensive gas in on the water. Didn't get an oil price though 8)

i'm with you bro... synthetic or refined

Amazing how the price of gas has gone through the roof, yet oil stays about the same.
Hmmmm........
(I knew this would turm into a oil question sooner or later...They ALL do...even when they start out with big fat coils!
8)