Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

jkust

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

You towed with a boy racer car rated to tow nothing - not exactly the same thing as towing with a vehicle the manufacturer says can tow 3500lbs.

I'm betting the OP will grow into a more robust tow vehicle at some point. Gotta walk before you run and the boat and 20 year old minivan sound like he's just starting out.
 

rolmops

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

You towed with a boy racer car rated to tow nothing - not exactly the same thing as towing with a vehicle the manufacturer says can tow 3500lbs.
It's not the towing capacity. It is the capability to make panic stops that is crucial.
 

jkust

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

It's not the towing capacity. It is the capability to make panic stops that is crucial.

Exactly...as mentioned above. Plus the emergency swerves to avoid the local farmer that pulls out in front of you with complete disregard and has no idea that he almost lived his last day. I wonder if the OP's minivan has rear drum brakes as well?
 

lrak

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

How long do you think it will take to stop/swerve a 2000lb boat with a 20 year old ~4000lb van with unloaded 60-0 distances of 124 feet?
1995 Ford Windstar |*MotorWeek

How much better do you think it would be to stop/swerve a 2000lb boat with a modern ~8000lb diesel dually crew cab pickup with unloaded 60-0 distances of 154 feet?
2014 Ram 3500 HD Laramie Longhorn First Test - Truck Trend

I bet they'd be a lot closer than you think. Comparing vehicles of the same vintage I bet the minivan would win.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

You towed with a boy racer car rated to tow nothing - not exactly the same thing as towing with a vehicle the manufacturer says can tow 3500lbs.


I do the same... :joyous: 140k miles on a subaru WRX, LOTS of it spent towing 2000#+ behind. Difference being that an '84 mustang would have fallen apart on its own without towing anything. Actually it would have fallen apart without even moving, those were very, very dark years for mustangs!
 

chambers1517

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

The big thing is that manufacturers don't concentrate on tow ratings for minivans and cars. Why would they rate a van to tow 6000+lbs, they would rather sell you a van to carry people and a truck to tow with. The trucks are maxed out on tow ratings so they can brag about who tows the most. Take a 3/4 ton at it's towing limit and see how it handles an emergency maneuver. Take a semi for instance, they are rated to tow huge loads but physics doesnt allow them to stop or change directions quickly. A 1984 dodge caravan with drum brakes, 4cylinder engine and 125hp is rated to tow the same as a 2014 caravan with a powerful 4.0 vs 4wheel anti lock disc plus traction control plus all the other improvements over the years. Manufacturers have no incentive to test and verify the true tow limits of vehicles other than the ones sold for this purpose. I towed a 4000# boat 800 miles with a 2012 Kia Sorento with a 3.5 and AWD. The Kia is rated to tow 3500#. I have towed the same boat with a standard cab pickup with a Hemi rated to tow 7500#. The Kia was much better at the task. The Kia handled and stopped the load much better, the Hemi would out accelerate the Kia but we weren't in a race. The rear of the truck actually slid while I was in a turn on the brakes, never felt any issues with the Kia.
 
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ricohman

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

The big thing is that manufacturers don't concentrate on tow ratings for minivans and cars. Why would they rate a van to tow 6000+lbs, they would rather sell you a van to carry people and a truck to tow with. The trucks are maxed out on tow ratings so they can brag about who tows the most. Take a 3/4 ton at it's towing limit and see how it handles an emergency maneuver. Take a semi for instance, they are rated to tow huge loads but physics doesnt allow them to stop or change directions quickly. A 1984 dodge caravan with drum brakes, 4cylinder engine and 125hp is rated to tow the same as a 2014 caravan with a powerful 4.0 vs 4wheel anti lock disc plus traction control plus all the other improvements over the years. Manufacturers have no incentive to test and verify the true tow limits of vehicles other than the ones sold for this purpose. I towed a 4000# boat 800 miles with a 2012 Kia Sorento with a 3.5 and AWD. The Kia is rated to tow 3500#. I have towed the same boat with a standard cab pickup with a Hemi rated to tow 7500#. The Kia was much better at the task. The Kia handled and stopped the load much better, the Hemi would out accelerate the Kia but we weren't in a race. The rear of the truck actually slid while I was in a turn on the brakes, never felt any issues with the Kia.

I'd take the half ton any day over a Kia for a 4000lb load. Sure you can tow with the Kia and its rated reasonably high. But heavy duty it ain't.
Its no contest. But thats just me.
 

oldjeep

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

I'd take the half ton any day over a Kia for a 4000lb load. Sure you can tow with the Kia and its rated reasonably high. But heavy duty it ain't.
Its no contest. But thats just me.

I would too, but we did tow our Bayliner with a 2003 Sorrento for a couple years - although in those days they were RWD, had a frame and a 5K tow rating.

Sounds like the "Hemi" had issues, as that is what I tow my 5K boat with now and it pulls it like it isn't there.
 
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ssoper

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

The big thing is that manufacturers don't concentrate on tow ratings for minivans and cars. Why would they rate a van to tow 6000+lbs, they would rather sell you a van to carry people and a truck to tow with. The trucks are maxed out on tow ratings so they can brag about who tows the most. Take a 3/4 ton at it's towing limit and see how it handles an emergency maneuver. Take a semi for instance, they are rated to tow huge loads but physics doesnt allow them to stop or change directions quickly. A 1984 dodge caravan with drum brakes, 4cylinder engine and 125hp is rated to tow the same as a 2014 caravan with a powerful 4.0 vs 4wheel anti lock disc plus traction control plus all the other improvements over the years. Manufacturers have no incentive to test and verify the true tow limits of vehicles other than the ones sold for this purpose. I towed a 4000# boat 800 miles with a 2012 Kia Sorento with a 3.5 and AWD. The Kia is rated to tow 3500#. I have towed the same boat with a standard cab pickup with a Hemi rated to tow 7500#. The Kia was much better at the task. The Kia handled and stopped the load much better, the Hemi would out accelerate the Kia but we weren't in a race. The rear of the truck actually slid while I was in a turn on the brakes, never felt any issues with the Kia.

Not correct information with the 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan, there hasn't been a 4.0L since 2010. And the Tow rating is 3500lbs, 1257lbs payload.
 

jkust

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Back when I still had the minivan that I used to tow with as per my posts above...I just sold it last summer so have had three full frame suv's while owning the minivan...what struck me everything else aside is the unibody on the minivan was literally cardboard thin while the truck frame is inches thick. I would say that if there is one thing the minivan did good is straight line towing on the highway given the length of it. Everything else was acceptable to poor. In town towing with lots of stop and go's would tax the cooling system and so I hated traffic jams. After towing as much as I have with a minivan and really middle of the road truck frame suv's with 4x4, locking rear diff, 3.73 rear ends, air shock suspensions, higher clearance, wider and bigger tires, beefier drive drain, cooling system, more hp, more tq, superior braking system. I can not in any way comprehend how any minivan could tow better. They really are an apple and an orange and not even fair really to compare them. All that said I prefer driving the minivan for regular driving and plus they have so much more usable cargo room.
 
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ssobol

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Back when I still had the minivan that I used to tow with as per my posts above...I just sold it last summer so have had three full frame suv's while owning the minivan...what struck me everything else aside is the unibody on the minivan was literally cardboard thin while the truck frame is inches thick. I would say that if there is one thing the minivan did good is straight line towing on the highway given the length of it. Everything else was acceptable to poor. In town towing with lots of stop and go's would tax the cooling system and so I hated traffic jams. After towing as much as I have with a minivan and really middle of the road truck frame suv's with 4x4, locking rear diff, 3.73 rear ends, air shock suspensions, higher clearance, wider and bigger tires, beefier drive drain, cooling system, more hp, more tq, superior braking system. I can not in any way comprehend how any minivan could tow better. They really are an apple and an orange and not even fair really to compare them. All that said I prefer driving the minivan for regular driving and plus they have so much more usable cargo room.

First, there are no "official" towing requirements, standards, or tests. Each manufacturer decides the towing capacity of each of their vehicles. The standards that Ford uses can be different than Toyota (for example).

Second, how does anyone determine which is a "better" tow vehicle. Sure a bigger engine will allow you to accelerate more quickly, but won't make any a whole lot of difference when stopping. In fact the higher weight of the larger engine will tend to increase the stopping distance. During an emergency stop in vehicles with ABS systems, stopping distance is solely determined by the grip that the tires have on the pavement. Handling will also be determined by the grip of the tires on the road. Bigger vehicles generally have larger tires which gives more surface area and therefore better grip, but other that than there shouldn't be any difference.

I would expect that a minivan and a similar size pickup truck should handle about the same. You might be able to say that the van would be better because it might have a better weight balance due to the full body.

The only obvious difference between a truck and a unibody vehicle is that the truck might tolerate the towing loads better over the long term. However in the short term I don't see what the difference would be.

My van has a GVW a bit over 8000#. The unibody is designed to handle this weight indefinitely. It should not matter a whole lot if the 8000# is contained inside the vehicle or is a combination of van and trailer.

FWIW, I tow a 22 cabin cruiser with a Sienna minivan (with tow package). I put airbags in the rear suspension. It accelerates acceptably and stops very nicely. Towing my boat is not any problem.
 

jkust

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

First, there are no "official" towing requirements, standards, or tests. Each manufacturer decides the towing capacity of each of their vehicles. The standards that Ford uses can be different than Toyota (for example).

Second, how does anyone determine which is a "better" tow vehicle. Sure a bigger engine will allow you to accelerate more quickly, but won't make any a whole lot of difference when stopping. In fact the higher weight of the larger engine will tend to increase the stopping distance. During an emergency stop in vehicles with ABS systems, stopping distance is solely determined by the grip that the tires have on the pavement. Handling will also be determined by the grip of the tires on the road. Bigger vehicles generally have larger tires which gives more surface area and therefore better grip, but other that than there shouldn't be any difference.

I would expect that a minivan and a similar size pickup truck should handle about the same. You might be able to say that the van would be better because it might have a better weight balance due to the full body.

The only obvious difference between a truck and a unibody vehicle is that the truck might tolerate the towing loads better over the long term. However in the short term I don't see what the difference would be. No amount of experience, logic, physics, engineering, common sense, side by side testing, third party testing, first party testing will be discussed or apply.

My van has a GVW a bit over 8000#. The unibody is designed to handle this weight indefinitely. It should not matter a whole lot if the 8000# is contained inside the vehicle or is a combination of van and trailer.

FWIW, I tow a 22 cabin cruiser with a Sienna minivan (with tow package). I put airbags in the rear suspension. It accelerates acceptably and stops very nicely. Towing my boat is not any problem.

So then as logic and physics do not apply here, I will simply take this out of the conditional tense and then just say all of the above only apply to my minivan and suv's and boat combination. Only me...nobody else and no other set up on the planet. Everything above should heretofore be prefaced with only applies to me. As it is, then I suggest the minivan is a better tow vehicle than all others but only as defined by me.
 

chambers1517

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Speaking of physics, do you really believe a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup towing at their limit is safer than a smaller vehicle towing at or slightly above it's limit. A train is immensely strong and rated to tow ALOT but try and stop it quickly, same goes for a semi. I cant believe some people think an 8000lb truck can handle 20000lbs better than a 3500lb minivan can handle 3553lbs, just because the truck may be under its rated limit and the van may be slightly over.
 

jkust

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Speaking of physics, do you really believe a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup towing at their limit is safer than a smaller vehicle towing at or slightly above it's limit. A train is immensely strong and rated to tow ALOT but try and stop it quickly, same goes for a semi. I cant believe some people think an 8000lb truck can handle 20000lbs better than a 3500lb minivan can handle 3553lbs, just because the truck may be under its rated limit and the van may be slightly over.

I don't know...maybe start a thread on that and we will find the 'some people' in your analogy and school them good.
 

chambers1517

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

No need to start a thread. They are everywhere. Look for the people who say if your vehicle is 50lbs overloaded and you have an accident with them, they will sue everyone in your family. They disreguard the semi doing 85 who has no chance in an emergency situation.
 

SilverSS07

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

First, there are no "official" towing requirements, standards, or tests. Each manufacturer decides the towing capacity of each of their vehicles. The standards that Ford uses can be different than Toyota (for example).

Second, how does anyone determine which is a "better" tow vehicle. Sure a bigger engine will allow you to accelerate more quickly, but won't make any a whole lot of difference when stopping. In fact the higher weight of the larger engine will tend to increase the stopping distance. During an emergency stop in vehicles with ABS systems, stopping distance is solely determined by the grip that the tires have on the pavement. Handling will also be determined by the grip of the tires on the road. Bigger vehicles generally have larger tires which gives more surface area and therefore better grip, but other that than there shouldn't be any difference.

I would expect that a minivan and a similar size pickup truck should handle about the same. You might be able to say that the van would be better because it might have a better weight balance due to the full body.

The only obvious difference between a truck and a unibody vehicle is that the truck might tolerate the towing loads better over the long term. However in the short term I don't see what the difference would be.

My van has a GVW a bit over 8000#. The unibody is designed to handle this weight indefinitely. It should not matter a whole lot if the 8000# is contained inside the vehicle or is a combination of van and trailer.

FWIW, I tow a 22 cabin cruiser with a Sienna minivan (with tow package). I put airbags in the rear suspension. It accelerates acceptably and stops very nicely. Towing my boat is not any problem.

I hope your 22 cabin cruiser is aluminum. Your minivan doesn't have a gvw of over 8,000. Depending on the year it probably has a GCWR of 8,700. Your GVWR is about 5700. Towing capacity is 3500 lbs.
 

300grain

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Our minivan can tow the boat and trailer. What I was conccerned with was pulling the boat out of the water. We are no strangers to towing since we have towed our boat as well as other trailers with vehicles ranging from a 1978 Chevette to a Motorhome. It seems that most minivan owners have had favorable experiences on the boatramp with them. Will try ourselves after I get the boat ready.
 

I`mNotMe

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

I tow a 2,600 lbs (dry weight) boat with 2010 FWD mini-van and based my Lessons Learned:
- Boat trailer needs its own breaks. IMO, Full Electric brakes works best.
- Mini-Van can only tow in its "D" gear. Towing in OD is too hard on its tranny.
- Drive slow ground speed on fast hiways - keeping in the slower drive lane.
- Mini-Van must have aux ATF cooler for 5,000 lbs trailer (even if pulling < 3,200 lbs trailer).
- Mini-Van needs Timbren SES or Air Bags - since most boat trailer cannot accept Weight Distribution Systems.
- For boat ramps, I only pick paved / cement ramps. Before backing down the ramp, I watch a few combos like my combo first. If they spin their tires or struggle pulling loaded boat out of water, then so will my similar combo. On loose gravel ramps, I backed down with ease but its spins too much pulling loaded boat up the ramp. Especially if ramp is steep with loose gravel.

Don't think I'd pull more than 2,600 lbs loaded trailer + heavy load within mini-van. Keep it loaded light is best. Especially if pulling up hills and/or against a strong head wind.

IMO, towing isn't really about "the numbers" of tow vehicle or trailer. Its really about being safe. Thus, why I recommended full electric bakes on trailer, beefing up mini-van's rear suspension (due to attached trailer's tongue weight), drive slow in the slow lane and use wide viewing mirrors. Being safe is most critical to all...
 
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lrak

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

- Boat trailer needs its own breaks. IMO, Full Electric brakes works best.

Same as true for towing with a truck/SUV.

- Mini-Van can only tow in its "D" gear. Towing in OD is too hard on its tranny.

I was not aware of any minivans you could not shift to direct. Some of todays minivans make you lock out both overdrive gears if you want to lock out either. Others let you lock out the double overdrive and then overdrive one at a time. That difference was one of the differentiators between the Sienna and Odyssey when we were shopping.

- Drive slow ground speed on fast hiways - keeping in the slower drive lane.

Why? Poor handling? Not enough power to maintain speed?

- Mini-Van must have aux ATF cooler for 5,000 lbs trailer (even if pulling < 3,200 lbs trailer).

Yes. Trucks/SUVs require them for towing heavy loads as well. The difference is you can get usually them factory installed as part of a towing package in that type vehicle.

- Mini-Van needs Timbren SES or Air Bags - since most boat trailer cannot accept Weight Distribution Systems.

Likely a good upgrade, but necessary? Your tongue weight should be between 5% (160lbs) and 10% (320lbs) on a 3200lb boat trailer. Most minivans allow three adults to sit in the rear seat less than 2' infront of the trailer ball. If your mini-van needs Timbrens or Air Bags, then that is due to other factors (too softly sprung vehicle, too much passenger/cargo weight in the vehicle, too much tongue weight, etc). I wouldn't bother with weight distribution on a 200something pound tongue weight even if the trailer could accept it.

- For boat ramps, I only pick paved / cement ramps. Before backing down the ramp, I watch a few combos like my combo first. If they spin their tires or struggle pulling loaded boat out of water, then so will my similar combo. On loose gravel ramps, I backed down with ease but its spins too much pulling loaded boat up the ramp. Especially if ramp is steep with loose gravel.

I've spun my FWD compact sedan and my RWD truck about the same amount when pulling my < 1000lb boat out on loose gravel ramps. The only difference I've noticed is the FWD car shoots the gravel/mud onto the car body and the RWD truck shoots the gravel/mud onto the boat body. On a paved ramp, I prefer FWD better than RWD since I have a chance to can keep the drive wheels out of the wet slime. Obviously AWD/4WD is best when pulling out. Why not get an AWD minivan if this is a huge concern?

Don't think I'd pull more than 2,600 lbs loaded trailer + heavy load within mini-van. Keep it loaded light is best. Especially if pulling up hills and/or against a strong head wind.

My wife's minivan has an extra gear and extra 30 horsepower over my truck. Since I tow loads 1/2 the weight and 1/4 the drag with the van, I've never had a problem with hills or head winds in the van. Wish I could say the same for the truck. :)
 
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I`mNotMe

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Re: Does Anyone tow with a Front Wheel Drive Mini Van?

Irak.

What is the make/model of your mini-van? I'd love to pull the stats of your specific mini-van.
 
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