Does something sound bizarre here???

[Pez Vela]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

I fully anticipate everything is going to be check out just fine.

... but if it doesn't, you're going to ask for a reduced sales price, or for repairs to be made at the seller's expense. The negotiations will continue ... maybe for days ... not to mention the fact that you should probably sleep on the deal for one day after the sea trial. If you buy this, or any other boat from this guy, you better watch your back. Buying a boat should be a pleasureful and exciting experience, and this guy is a real buzz killer. I think he's gone beyond acceptable sales pressure tactics. You've given him a decent deposit. He needs to chill. I can't wait for Tuesday.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

The broker is an A hole, and no, boat transactions don't usually work that way.

Think about it, it will take several days to get a surveyors report back. A buyer is not going to commit to a deal without the surveyors report.

When I bought my boat (about 7 years ago), I was initially interested in another boat through a different broker. That broker turned out to be an A hole so I walked after seeing the boat, but could not come to terms on purchase & sale. The broker that I bought a boat from was easy going and didn't have a lot of 'rules' for me to follow.

 

[26aftcab454]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

When I bought my Wellcraft for about the same $$ from a broker 80 miles away I went up and looked the boat over- went for short test ride-decided I liked it--put $500 deposit down and told him I would be back in a few days with a cashier's check provided the mechanic's inspection was good-deposit refundable at any time---every one was happy.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

SO: Just tell him that he has been doing it wrong for twenty years and to kiss your butt if he doesn't like it. Don't be bullied! It's not a rare Ferrari worth hundreds of thousands. No boat HAS to be bought. Lots of boats this size are on the market and if this deal falls through, walk away knowing there will always be another one that suits you.

 

[mommicked]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

I'm guessing the sea trial, might not go so good.

 

[UncleSpidey]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

When I bought my Wellcraft for about the same $$ from a broker 80 miles away I went up and looked the boat over- went for short test ride-decided I liked it--put $500 deposit down and told him I would be back in a few days with a cashier's check provided the mechanic's inspection was good-deposit refundable at any time---every one was happy.

And that sounds about right to me. Part of your initial evaluation involved a test ride, and then you dealt with the money. This one seems to be exactly the opposite. Like I said, I didnt initially have a huge problem with putting some money down in a good faith gesture. I shouldn't HAVE to, but whatever. My problem is with the idea that in order to go for a ride, I have to have a check in hand and the expectation is that I will be closing the deal immediately after. That sounds like a situation DESIGNED to put me at a disadvantage.

 

[Bluepike]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

The person that pays the band, picks the music they will pay, you are the one with the checkbook, you dictate what it takes to write the check.

 

[justchecking]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

You have the money, he wants the money. After the sea trial there may be all kinds of things to settle (fix this, fix that, you fix this or that for $$ consideration, etc.). You really want a blank check from the loan company where you fill in the final amount.

You pretty much set the rules. He sounds like the "Closing King" you see in many dealerships nowadays. Hold on to your wallet whenever he's around! How long has the had the contract? Maybe it's running out. If so, talk to the owner.

If you need to walk away remember you can always find another boat.

Good luck.

 

[jacoboregon]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

Do you have to use that broker? if you're really wound up for the deal, just tell him you will take the agreed upon sea-trial, and will make up your mind after that and absolutely not before. Personally, I'd tell the jackass to give me back my money now, and I'll call someone else or look elsewhere!

 

[oops!]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

when im selling a boat.......the sea tryal is the last step. a non refundable deposit is paid before the boat gets splashed.
if a survey is requested...it is at the owners expense.

when the above conditions are taken care of.....and the client still wants the boat......he must agree to buy the boat pending sea tryal.......after the tryal, the boat is usually either taken or arranged to be taken......the boat does not get wet without a substantial amount of money down.

this is all explained to the potential owner when he starts to get serious about buying the boat.

if the boat does not pass survey or sea trial......only then is the deposit refunded.......
note that is the boat floats.....and the motor and all electrical works...this is considered a success full sea trial...but the client tries to back out for some reason....the deposit is held.

in the op's case.....waiting a few days for the bank draft, while holding the deposit is no issue......

firmly explain what you are doing to the seller.....also firmly explain that this is how the deal is going to work....if he does not agree......then the deal is dead.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

I was thinking this was a much larger boat. The guy brokering this deal is a jerk. Run, Run, Run...

Edit - Had a little time to think about this - This is purely speculation on my part -

It sounds like this might be a bankruptcy sale. It could be a personal bankruptcy or a dealer bankruptcy. It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would hire a broker and pay a commission when boats like this are sold all day long on craigslist or eBay. I suppose the owner could have more money than time but that doesn't jive with the broker trying to move this like this. It could be a short sell for a bank repo I guess. I almost suspect its a relative or friend trying to play big shot. Any reputable broker knows the process for financing used boats is often complicated and difficult in these economic times. A new boat is a piece of cake. I had a line of credit but my bank still wanted to do their own survey if I bought used. I also had to convince the seller to register it in California which to my suprise wasn't as big a problem as I thought it would be. I ended up buying new because I found a great dealer.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

Y'know ... you've already paid the 5%. The sea trial is scheduled. Run it out. If you like the boat, buy it on your terms. If the guy continues to be a bozo, console yourself with the fact that you don't ever have to deal with him again ... and you got the boat you want for the deal you want.

If you don't like the boat ... or you really don't like the deal (or the broker) and feel like you can find another boat you like, dump the deal and walk away. $14k is a pretty good size budget, there should be some decent deals out there right now.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

Y'know ... you've already paid the 5%. The sea trial is scheduled. Run it out. If you like the boat, buy it on your terms. If the guy continues to be a bozo, console yourself with the fact that you don't ever have to deal with him again ... and you got the boat you want for the deal you want.

If you don't like the boat ... or you really don't like the deal (or the broker) and feel like you can find another boat you like, dump the deal and walk away. $14k is a pretty good size budget, there should be some decent deals out there right now.

Good advice..

 

[jacoboregon]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

whether a boat, a car, a motorcycle or whatever... if you try it and don't like it for ANY reason (the way it feels, the way it runs, whatever) I would NEVER get into a deal where someone wants to pressure you to buy it JUST because you test drove it. I agree with southkog's advice as well. Just make sure there isn't some "clause" somewhere that commits you to the purchase because you took it on a sea-trial. It may not leak, the motor, electrical and electronics may be fine. But you may decide you really don't like it. If someone is selling something that is all in good order for a reasonable price, and they have integrity they won't try to pressure you. Desperate people who are afraid they won't get a buyer will pressure you.

 

[GaryGGR]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

My first day on the forum, actual first 5 min. Here goes.

Number one rule of negotiating is being prepared say no and walk away. He wouldn?t have my $700 as leverage

Oops! Who decides if the boat passes the sea trial?

 

[oops!]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

Oops! Who decides if the boat passes the sea trial?

hi....welcome to iboats !

if the boat floats and runs....with electrical working it passes......the speed is allready stated.....if he does not like the feel of the boat....that is not the issue......he can walk. but the deposit is kept ( because the time the boat was off the market).

sea tryals are the final step....but there are no joy rides....there is a cost to walk.....

keep in mind.....there is full disclosure to the customer.....full......nothing hidden.....the buyer knows what to expect....and everything is spelled out to him before hand.....no surprises...

this way......no one is wasting anybody's time, and everybody is happy

 

[UncleSpidey]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

Thank you to everyone for the replies. Hopefully there are still others waiting to chime in. It's really a fantastic thing to have the collective wisdom of the iboats community.

The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that the crux of the question is this: Is is reasonable for a buyer to have the option to take a day or two to complete the sale after a sea trial (be that to finalize financing, sleep on the test, get survey results, etc.) or should the buyer be prepared to finalize the deal immediately. There is validity to both points of view.

If this were a much larger vessel, it seems to me a sea trial becomes a much bigger deal. I completely understand how that would be a large undertaking for everybody, but that isn't the situation in this case. With what we're talking about, I just don't buy that driving a 24' boat across the street to put it in the water for an hour or so should be that big a deal, but apparently to the broker it is. He keeps telling me how much work is involved for him to prep this boat and put it in the water. I still think it's a sales tactic. The irony is, I really do think the sea trial is going to be to my liking and if he had just chillaxed a little bit then he would almost certainly be looking at a sale. As it is, he got hot under the collar, and I'm just not cool with somebody getting upset with me when I'm trying to put money in his pocket. I like the boat...a lot in fact...but I'm not married to it yet. My only decision is if I like it enough to put up with a jack-hole of a broker for a day to make it my own.

I'm in business too. I know that sometimes customers have unrealistic expectations or concerns that I'm just never going to be able to satisfy. Sometimes you gotta say to a customer "maybe I'm not the guy you want to do business with." But as the buyer, I really don't think I'm asking for something all that unreasonable. I want a day or two after the sea trial to finalize what I need to finalize and complete the sale. I just can't for the life of me understand why this guy is willing to die on this hill and lose the sale unless he's just got total alpha-dog syndrome or he's worried I'm going to figure something out if I have too much time to think about it. THAT'S the red flag for me.

For anyone who's interested.....

http://photobucket.com/stingray230sx

http://www.mmboats.com/boats.php?status=0

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

When I train Scuba instructors, I tell them to tune in and rely on their "Spidey Sense". That holds true here. If the broker is acting like Junior Samples by being pushy, then he probably IS Junior Samples and you have to wonder what's really wrong with the boat. Your Spidey Sense can often give you an insight that at first defies definition. Before too long, you begin to understand what's up.

Also, the first rule of negotiation is to say "No" at least a few times. I do this when I buy anything that's expensive like a car, boat or house. In today's internet based economy, I will often do my initial research there and then call around. When I bought my Honda Ridgeline, I was calling dealers a thousand miles away to find out the absolute lowest. When I called my local dealer they were aghast that I wanted such a low price. Three days later, they called me to accept my offer. When I suggested that I had already accepted a deal elsewhere, they threw in the bed cover I wanted. I figured I had walked away from this deal 4 times and I never set foot on the lot.

 

[UncleSpidey]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

When I train Scuba instructors, I tell them to tune in and rely on their "Spidey Sense".

Spidey sense.....I like that!

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Does something sound bizarre here???

When selling a boat, there are a lot of people out there looking for a joy ride. Oops! is right that a seller/broker expects some "commitment" on the part of the buyer. The offer is pending successful sea trial and a problem in the sea trial is the only way out to get the deposit back.

Having said that, sea trial results are often subjective. If you are worried about little things, doncwalk away because every boat will have at least 10 little issues, if not 100. Sea trial is looking to ensure the boat is as advertised with no major problems. Maybe you should agree up front that the surveyor (a registered one) be the arbitor of what condtitutes successful vs failed sea trial and the value of any major problems.

BTW my last surveyor would not say anything definitive until he gave me his final, written report the next day. We then renegotiated the price based upon one major problem. So, the broker has lied about the process. Move through the process but donct trust a word the broker says. Also remember, the seller is not the broker. He may be a nice guy.