Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Exactly.

What kind of attention would anyone pay to NFL if it was just the same two teams, year after year?

BOTH parties know that letting any other teams play would ruin their chances to advance their narrow, self serving agendas, which is why BOTH major parties do whatever they can to keep any other teams from ever getting on the field. And until there are some decent teams playing, I have no interest in the game of electoral politics.

What other party ideas do you want? You either kill the terrorists or you don't. You either want to drill a hole in the babys head and suck out its brains or you don't. You either want high or low taxes. What other "options" do you want?

 

[klicknative]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

I'm an indipendent voter and there are issues I care deeply about. If I were forced to choose a party I'd have to lean to the GOP, but only by a degree or two. I'm pro choice and pro 2nd amendment. I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of taxes as long as the money is spent wisely. I think Iraq was a horribile stategic mistake, all it did was detract from hunting down and killing Bin Lauden and his followers. Ever stop to think that maybe Sadam didn't want the world (esp. Iran) to know he DID NOT have WMD's? And, to finish this summary of where I stand polliticaly, the national forest pollicy is a joke. The forests can not be put "under glass" and expected to thrive.

I have a hard time with the "root for the team" posts from above. I want my senators and represtitive to play for Washington State, not a political party. I will continue to vote for the person before the party, allways have, allways will.

Before I go back to just lurking the political threads, I respect everyones opinions and intelligence but remember, the Kool-Aid comes in blue AND red.

 

[crabby_bob]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

What other party ideas do you want? You either kill the terrorists or you don't. You either want to drill a hole in the babys head and suck out its brains or you don't. You either want high or low taxes. What other "options" do you want?

Here we go again. Good bye to this thread. It's over.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

What other party ideas do you want? You either kill the terrorists or you don't. You either want to drill a hole in the babys head and suck out its brains or you don't. You either want high or low taxes. What other "options" do you want?

Umm...sorry, but even I know there are more than two ways to look at the world. Apparently, you don't.

And this brings us right back up to the top, where some of us just don't get the tribal, party loyalty thing, and for some folks, that's ALL they get.

sheesh! Done with this thread...

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Those who vote along party lines are not inherently less independent in their thoughts - most simply understand the political process and hope to actually accomplish something constructive with their vote. If voting your conscience satisfies your ego then by all means do so, but don't believe for even one minute that you're more courageous or enlightened than the rest of us.

There are two major political parties for good reason. As soon as you introduce a third (viable) party you've split the voters into groups that are too small to carry the influence necessary to seize power and control - and this is the ultimate goal of the political process. This has nothing to do with the will of the two major parties or a lack of interest on the part of the voters. The fact that no third party has EVER risen to a sustained national prominence in spite of many attempts proves this point.

So - we're stuck with the two ugly sisters. Almost none of us agrees entirely with either of the party's platforms but choose we must do.

 

[QC]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

What he said ^^^^^

 

[burroak]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Little known to most Democrats s that President Kennedy did the same thing!

Kennedy wouldn't recognize the Democrat party of today. He'd make a pretty good Conservative by today's standards.

 

[Bob Fort]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Crabbybob...I'm in agreement! Political parties don't vote in either the House or the Senate; nor in the NYS Legislature...individual people, however, do vote. It's them I want to influence, not some "party" that is at least three times removed from voting booth accountability.

 

[crabby_bob]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Those who vote along party lines are not inherently less independent in their thoughts - most simply understand the political process and hope to actually accomplish something constructive with their vote. If voting your conscience satisfies your ego then by all means do so, but don't believe for even one minute that you're more courageous or enlightened than the rest of us.

There are two major political parties for good reason. As soon as you introduce a third (viable) party you've split the voters into groups that are too small to carry the influence necessary to seize power and control - and this is the ultimate goal of the political process. This has nothing to do with the will of the two major parties or a lack of interest on the part of the voters. The fact that no third party has EVER risen to a sustained national prominence in spite of many attempts proves this point.

So - we're stuck with the two ugly sisters. Almost none of us agrees entirely with either of the party's platforms but choose we must do.

Then there should only be 1 question on the ballot "Democrat or Republican?".

It's not a matter of feeding my ego or feeling superior. It's simply a matter of picking the person I feel is best for the job or voting on issues I believe in. It's no different than what you do. I just don't limit myself to voting for a party. I suspect a lot of people are like that and in a way it does constitute a 3rd party. It's the I'm Going to Vote my Conscience But am Too Antisocial or Lazy to Organize party and I think it's a significant group of people. If we had a symbol it would be a guy laying under a shade tree, making an insulting gesture with his index finger. We don't hold rallies, we don't hand out bumper stickers, we don't run voting drives. We just take in information, filter out what we believe is crap, and cast a vote. What's wrong with that? If I feel an organized 3rd party does a better job of addressing the issues that are important to me, and they don't represent issues I find harmful, I'll vote for them. Some may see it as throwing away my vote but I see it as a logical thing to do. A party doesn't have to be elected to office to influence the direction of government. It just has to show that enough people feel a certain way to make the MSPs take notice. Besides I'm a Joe Average kind of guy so chances are most of my positions are already represented to some degree by one of the MSPs and I guess I'm OK letting the movers and shakers take up the slack for me while I feed my ego. Sorry about that, and thank you.

I may have latched onto the wrong thread here. My problem isn't discussions with titles like "Those gutless weasel democrats just gave Bin Laden the bomb". What I have issue with are threads that start with a rational discussion then degenerate into political mud slinging or attack a group of people or a religion.

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

I didn't mean to sound critical - I understand your logic and find it appealing. At the same time, I have a desire for benefit to be derived from the voting process - not just the joy of participation. The "losing" party, which is EVERYONE NOT IN THE WINNING PARTY, get to complain from the peanut gallery while the "winning" party gets to make the rules.

Individual people working alone accomplish nothing meaningful in the political process. It's just that simple. So how do you work as a group? Well - you form a political party and devise a widely accepted platform which represents the collective view of the members and together you exert influence which exceeds the sum of it's parts.

I agree with your point about disrespectful mudslinging. People feel strongly about their politics and that in combination with the relative anonymity of the internet allow most to say things they woulnd't in a polite face to face conversation.

 

[crabby_bob]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Individual people working alone accomplish nothing meaningful in the political process. It's just that simple. So how do you work as a group? Well - you form a political party and devise a widely accepted platform which represents the collective view of the members and together you exert influence which exceeds the sum of it's parts.

An individual casting a vote is not working alone.

 

[crabby_bob]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

I didn't mean to sound critical - I understand your logic and find it appealing. At the same time, I have a desire for benefit to be derived from the voting process - not just the joy of participation. The "losing" party, which is EVERYONE NOT IN THE WINNING PARTY, get to complain from the peanut gallery while the "winning" party gets to make the rules.

Individual people working alone accomplish nothing meaningful in the political process. It's just that simple. So how do you work as a group? Well - you form a political party and devise a widely accepted platform which represents the collective view of the members and together you exert influence which exceeds the sum of it's parts.

I agree with your point about disrespectful mudslinging. People feel strongly about their politics and that in combination with the relative anonymity of the internet allow most to say things they woulnd't in a polite face to face conversation.

OK. At least we agree somewhat on the mudslinging. But I get the feeling we disagree on how it promotes a meaningful discussion. I have to agree negative campaigns work and since the goal is to get your party elected so you can get your agenda passed it's the intellectually correct thing to do. It just doesn't interest me and I feel it destroys any chance of conducting any discussion. Unless your discussing which of the 2 MSPs is the most immoral, cowardly, anti-American, inhumane, dumbest, and corrupt of the two. That's the "who's got the ugliest dog or fattest wife arguments" mentioned earlier.

 

[crabby_bob]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Crabbybob...I'm in agreement! Political parties don't vote in either the House or the Senate; nor in the NYS Legislature...individual people, however, do vote. It's them I want to influence, not some "party" that is at least three times removed from voting booth accountability.

Good point well made. Thanks for speaking up.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

I fart to make you smell better.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Personally, I'll never understand why any of this bothers anybody . . .

Yup! It beats the hell outta me.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Yea no kidding. Vote for who you want, hell I'm happy when someone says they voted, even if it wasn't for the candidate I chose. I'm happy the did their civic duty.

 

[Pony]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

Yup! It beats the hell outta me.

Its sad really to think of how many good people have gotten so disgusted by some posters' views (more importantly the way they espress them) that they have left. It really rubs some the wrong way. It has dilluted the value of the DC IMHO, but I have grown to just let it be. I dont read here as much as a result......not because people have differing views, not because I dont agree with them, but because it is sometimes quite disheartening to see how some choose to treat eachother over it.​

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

I'm an indipendent voter and there are issues I care deeply about. If I were forced to choose a party I'd have to lean to the GOP, but only by a degree or two. I'm pro choice and pro 2nd amendment.


I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of taxes as long as the money is spent wisely.

Hmmmmmmmm, Lil blue n' red Kool aid fer ya now, eh Golden (dale) boy?

Spoken as a true Liberal "independent voter", yah right. Irrational just as much as the belief that "more taxes will pay down the debt" n' totally devoid of any thought about actual history; "I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of taxes" n' "money is spent wisely". Sheeesh. Just get out yer check book and write 'em till they bounce, just leave the rest of us who actually produce things alone.

Does that, "MONEY SPENT WISELY" ever happen with BIG NANNY GOVERNMENT? Please think rationally, if you can. What is a "reasonable" amount of taxes to a LOON from the LEFT so drunk on Kool aid he can't even recognize the difference between logic n' another belt of the Loony Left drink? One of the questions one should ponder prior to voting more taxes to feed more government, (blood fer the tumor), is: how could the least efficient sector of our economy: NANNY GOVERNMENT suck up the greatest amount of forcefully extracted, (as in: taxes, ya know the part of the corntrol issue that really turns the cranks of Libs), n' produce very little except greater inefficiency n' drag on the productive sectors of the system?

I think Iraq was a horribile stategic mistake, all it did was detract from hunting down and killing Bin Lauden and his followers.

N' yer some kinda geopolitical genious who thinks we should throw all our resources tryin' to catch a single individual who does not want us to catch him and has at least 1.2 Billion people who lean his way in one degree or another runnin' interference in one way or the other: BRILLIANT! Think fer a nano second. If OBL and every living person in Afganistan ceased to exist 9/12/2001 the problems with ISLAMO FACISTS would be just as bad.

Ever stop to think that maybe Sadam didn't want the world (esp. Iran) to know he DID NOT have WMD's?

Yah, so? I guess ya think if ol' Sadam were still shootin' at our fly guys n' workin' the yoyo's in the UN's food fer oil scam that he wouldn't quickly recornstitute his nuke program with Iran on the fast track? BRILLIANT!

And, to finish this summary of where I stand polliticaly, the national forest pollicy is a joke. The forests can not be put "under glass" and expected to thrive.

I have a hard time with the "root for the team" posts from above.

Who's team ya on?

I want my senators and represtitive to play for Washington State, not a political party. I will continue to vote for the person before the party, allways have, allways will.

Before I go back to just lurking the political threads, I respect everyones opinions and intelligence but remember, the Kool-Aid comes in blue AND red.

Hmmmmmm, didn't know Kool aid made ya think. JR

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

An individual casting a vote is not working alone.

You are correct - but a politician who is unwilling to support the issues of others (I.E. consistently supporting the issues of their political party) IS working alone and can accomplish nothing as a result.

As for the mud slinging: Reasonable people can disagree. Unfortunately too many enjoy not the debate and exchange of thoughts and ideas but the opportunity for "safe" conflict that this format affords them.

 

[klicknative]

Re: Don't get the Political Rants & Raves

OMR, no lefty here. When I said "reasonable amount of taxes" I mean low taxes. Got to pay for roads, defence, fire protection ect. somehow. More days than not I think "spent wisely" may be a pipe dream but it doesn't hurt to hope. And I don't like the nanny state any more than you do. One example is the WA mandated CO sticker on boats. I'm smart enough to keep people in the water away from the motor when it's running. besides the sticker looks like shxx on my old Fiberform. Also, I can explain my stand on forest policy with a short statement, I work in the wood products industry. No greenie either. So, if you want me to label myself I'd have to say moderate Republican.