Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

[crunch]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Construction jobs don't pay much more than mimimum wage now days. I got my start working with my hands as well. Have you looked at the pay for a labor job these days?

LOL.... I'm a contractor.... $15.00 per hr to start.

If the only way a small business can afford to stay in business is by underpaying there workers than perhaps they don't have a viable business model?

At present they do, but they sure as he11 won't if the lib/socialists/democrats have their way.


I could make a LOT more money if only I could get slave labor. After all, if those slaves weren't so lazy and ignorant, they wouldn't be in this cycle of slavery and poverty in the first place.

A lot of truth in that if by slave you mean min wage earners.... did a poor man ever give you a job?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Construction jobs don't pay much more than mimimum wage now days. I got my start working with my hands as well. Have you looked at the pay for a labor job these days?

LOL.... I'm a contractor.... $15.00 per hr to start.

[

Glad to see you're not a greedy republican after all. See, you pay a fair wage and manage to stay in business!

Perhaps you could share your secret business strategy with walmart, mcdonalds, etc.

 

[tommays]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Well

in Ny right now its 6.75 and going to 7.15 on january 1 NOT than anybody will really work for that

A LEGAL box packer at are factory from south of the boarder gets 7 to start and a male material handler gets 8 (much harder job)

The ones who have better smarts have moved to pretty high levels up18 dollars and hour AGAIN the local folk dont seem to want the job ?

I dont think a local person has even applyed for a job here in 6 years EVEN for the summer

Tommays

 

[crunch]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Glad to see you're not a greedy republican after all. See, you pay a fair wage and manage to stay in business!

Have you ever hired a contractor? Believe me, I charge more than the price of a Big Mac. 8)

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Glad to see you're not a greedy republican after all. See, you pay a fair wage and manage to stay in business!

Have you ever hired a contractor? Believe me, I charge more than the price of a Big Mac. 8)

Sure, I've hired plenty of contractors. Somebody's got to give you crooks a job 8)

You ever been hired by a poor man?

 

[rmmpe]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

CBC,
I, like you, came from nothing and worked extremely hard to get ahead.

Noone gave me a thing along the way.

Countless errors and hard tasks later I am retired at 64, a college graduate, a Registered Professional Engineer, live in a nice, house, have 2 newer high-end cars, 2 boats, travel, debt-free and am able to help my kids when they need a LOAN, which have always been paid back.

I have raised my children to work hard at what they choose to do and earn advancement and raises. So far, both are doing well enough for themselves.

Raising the minimum wage will not relieve the apathetic mentality of those who quite simply don't want to work to get ahead. It also mutes the desire to improve ones-self.

I will not sponsor rewarding those that are lame by choice.

 

[Pony]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Anyone who has even basic comprehesion of economics could figure out that the intial increase in unemployment will be a short term effect. The money saved by employers from letting those jobs go combined with the increase in sales from the people making the higher minimum wage will in turn create more business and then more jobs. Then it starts over. Its a cycle. Its not rocket science.

I agree with just about everything rubberfrog has said in this thread.

I live in a state where welfare is a two year maximum situation. Sometimes these minimum wage jobs ARE the only thing available.

I wanted to avoid this type of reference, but I watched my mom send out 20-25 resumes a week and countless job applications only to HAVE to take a minimum wage type job just so we had something. Some of you people need to get a clue, and more importantly step outside the boxes you are living in. There is more out there than your skewed views. People are out there that depend on these jobs by no fault of their own. Its not always the lay apathetics out there who are stuck in these jobs. IF you are arguing that you are arguing the welfare system NOT minimum wage. They aren't the same.

 

[tommays]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Its a minium WAGE not a requirement to hire USELESS people


tommays

 

[alden135]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

combined with the increase in sales from the people making the higher minimum wage

I like you a lot Pony so I'll try to make my point without insulting you.

In my world, people don't produce more just because they are being paid more. Often, low income workers will work LESS than before (hours) as they don't see the forest through the trees. Many figure that they need to only make X # of dollars per week to "get by". These are often the same types stuck in these crap jobs, as they have no desire to work up to a better one.

I have had many, many, many, many, workers that have done this to me in the past so I'm not making this stuff up.

I pay a LOT more than minimum or the regional average to even a laborer. Some are willing to work, most are not.

 

[imported_Curmudgeon]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

How did you make the rediculous leap from minimum wage to what school kids can go to?

It's simple, Rubber Ducky, and pretty plain in my post. When government gets a pass on setting wages in the work place, they will have, in fact, decided what you can have or not have as long as you're employed there. Because they decide what you're worth, by default they also decide where you can afford to send your kids.

Minimum wage is step one. Executive salary step two?, And step three? They might just decide YOU are overly compensated and take steps to put YOU back in line. A good socialist would take that in stride, and you?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

I read these posts and clearly there are some that are living in a vacuum. There are only so many good paying jobs. There is an ever increasing population that needs to work. To say that it is as easy as "getting off your lazy butt, getting and education, and getting a good job" is so naive and simplistic, that it is almost insulting. I can go into town and talk to at least three people in the space of fifteen minutes that have college degrees and are working crap jobs because that is all there is.

The reality is people need to eat and have a place to live. They need to earn enough to accomplish this. If they have to work two minimum wage jobs to do this, then they do it. Its not because they just love working crap jobs. Its because they have no choice. The field of employment is flooded with part time jobs that have no benefits and pay minimum wage or maybe a bit more. If the minimum wage was lowered or eliminated, these employers would pay less. They don't care because they know someone will work for those slave wages. Its all about the bottom line. I applaud those employers who step up and try to take care of their people. Unfortunatley, you are in the minority. Its all about the bottom line, period.

I live in what is considered an economically depressed area. There are a lot of people here with money, but there is no industry. People here are stuck with low paying seasonal work. When the snowbirds head south, they take their money with them. These same snow birds drove our real estate and cost of living prices to above national average, so it is impossible to buy a home here. Ironically, the fast food places pay better than some of the small businesses. These small businesses had no problem raising prices when the snowbirds brought the cash, but they did not increase wages. They claim they can only pay small town wages, but they charge big city prices. These loathsome examples of abusive capitolism drive the H2's, have the lake house and the ski house, and their employees drive crap cars to work and live in trailers. That, my friends, is the reality. These employers don't want to do the right thing, so unfortunately, its up to the guvment to force them. I hate it, it sucks, and I don't agree with guvment involvment, but look to thine own when the guvment moves in.

And quit whining about socialism. We could have an all dem society and never be true socialists. Americans just don't work that way. Wanting people to be able to live their lives to at least a minimun standard is not socialism, it is compassion. True socialism is when you have to be on a waiting list to get a TV or be allowed to have a car. It is when you are alloted 1 chicken and 5 bags of rice a month. That will never happen in this country. We will never become a North Korea, we just don't work that way. The dems like the niceties of life too. Greed and self preservation is not just a conservative way of life.

All you people cry when people are on welfare because it pays more than the job market. You same people think that eliminating minimum wage will miraculasly cause employers to have an epiphony and suddenly start paying 16 dollars and hour. What will really happen is more people will be on welfare. Make up your minds, do you want them on welfare, or being productive members of society?

Plus, all those "studies" that support the elimination of minimum wage are sponsored by corporations that stand to profit off of the backs of underpaid people...

 

[ob]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

It gets annoying how people try to make their case by initially remarking how noone has a clue.Nothing occupationally catastrophic has recently happened to my knowledge that suddenly puts all of these poor underpriveledged minimum wage workers in a ecnomically challenged situation.Minimum wage jobs are and always were simply entry level wage positions that are filled primarily with minimum to no skilled applicants.The families that continue to reproduce offspring that are born into this type of repetitive economic depressed situation need to bear some if not most of the burden of poor family planning.Not all but many minimum wage workers were finally forced to get off their duffs a few years back in order to maintain their welfare status.Not all but many of them simply work enough to maintain said status while continuing to reproduce more offspring which increases their welfare dependancy while perpetuating their financial plight.It's truly sad but true.When 8 out of 10 black babies are born out of wedlock ,the child produced is born into an economically challenged situation and the scenario is repeated over and over.Nafta didn't help much either.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

They might just decide YOU are overly compensated and take steps to put YOU back in line. A good socialist would take that in stride, and you?

Hmmmmmmmm? Seems Algor already did that back in the mid 90's when he declared that people who made 250K a year were in fact millionares. That, of course, was when the Demunists liked to call taxes contributions.

Being a millionare was the basis for Clinton's confiscatory tax increase.

Just remember, cause it is going to happen again. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Thank you Karl Marx, you have lots of adherents on this forum. Some a little more, some a little less but remember, a rose by any other name................

 

[Pony]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

combined with the increase in sales from the people making the higher minimum wage

I like you a lot Pony so I'll try to make my point without insulting you.

In my world, people don't produce more just because they are being paid more. Often, low income workers will work LESS than before (hours) as they don't see the forest through the trees. Many figure that they need to only make X # of dollars per week to "get by". These are often the same types stuck in these crap jobs, as they have no desire to work up to a better one.

I have had many, many, many, many, workers that have done this to me in the past so I'm not making this stuff up.

I pay a LOT more than minimum or the regional average to even a laborer. Some are willing to work, most are not.

Trust me Alden, no offense taken. I have had some similar expiriences in my short time in the work force. That being said I have seen the oppoite as well.

The "sales" that I spoke of were in an economical sense in that the people that are making more money would thus be buying more consumable goods. I didn't mean to correlate that with increased work productivity. I definately see where you are coming from, and can see how the wording was ambiguous.








Boom- We are NOT communists. I had a big response written, but I deleted it. I am not going to waste my breath. You'll just accuse me of being some kind of socialist or communist Karl Marx protege...................despite the fact that I voted almost half republican this year.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

The reason democrats are commonly called communists is the unbelievable parallels in their beliefs, especially about gov't having control over everything in your life. This is the same idea, having gov't come into private business and say how much they should pay someone.

Don't get me wrong, gov't has to maintain control of it's people or you have anarchy. But to think that hundreds of thousands of soldiers died for our right to have our gov't take control of more and more of our lives is disheartening. I don't believe its what our founding fathers believed when they wrote the greatest document ever to see paper, the Constitution.

Oh, and please don't give me some sob story about someone working a minimum wage job because they can't find anything else. Look in the paper. Look online. With 4.4 percent unemployment, which is considered full employment, there are numerous jobs available. You'll just have to work harder than you would flipping a quarter pound slab of beef on its back every so often. Heck, in the past couple of months we've hired 5 or 6 new zero experience people at twice minimum wage, and we're a small mom and pop operation in Louisiana, a state known for low wages and poor citizens.

That would be why you're known as bleeding heart liberals. Nobody can do for themselves, we must have gov't hold our hands through life. Yea. Look where that got the UK, with 70% income tax.

Aww, compassion. Aww, how sweet. Lets pay people a full blown living wage whether they work the drive-thru or work on an oil rig. Aww, I think we should just have a group hug. I know where I live the cost of living is so low that 5.15 an hour and a little wise spending can get you into an apartment and into a nice little used Toyota to get you to work. It's called starting out at the bottom. I did it. I used to move friges for 15 cents over minimum. That got me the experience I needed to move up to a job paying a buck more. Then two bucks more, then five bucks more, etc etc. I've even had a huge setback, but I've picked myself up and I'm moving on. I'm not giving a sob story about how the gov't let me down. I'm giving a true story about how I worked my a$$ off to get what little I have, of which I'm damn proud of because the gov't didn't give me one effing penny of it. I earned it. Period.

 

[Aquaman]

let's raise it but.......how much?

let's raise it but.......how much?

Let's go in a slightly different direction.

What should the minimum or living wage be? And who should set it? A person making 25-50k a year or a person who can't quote the current price for a gallon of milk?

Would a 10-15 yr old car, a small apartment, and a diet that consisted of hamburger helper 3-4 times a month be adequate?

or

A 5-10 year old car, a 2-3 bedroom house, and maybe dining out some place other than Mcdonalds 3-4 time a month?

Ok, now that we've established that a x year old car, and a Y sq foot dwelling, and z nutritional diet is sufficient where do we go from here?

Should we pass a law saying anyone making our newly set minimum wage isn't allowed to have a cell phone? After all if you can afford a cell phone then surely you're making enough the feed and house the family.

What about cable vision, decent clothing,vacations,internet access,pets,family emergencies,air conditioning...the list goes on. I could "live" without these items but I'd consider my standard of living greatly diminished. So what constitutes a reasonable standard?


What about a sliding scale? The more dependants you have the more your personal minimum should be or maybe limit the dependants you're allowed to have.?

To those who say raise it: Is your pedestal high enough to dictate someone else's standard of living?

To those of you who say don't raise it: Would you be willing to help feed the worker who for what ever reason is having a tough time making ends meet?

In case you're wondering I don't give a fat rat's asp if it's raised. lowered. or abolished.

If it raises/lowers prices or the employment rate I'll deal with it just like I do with all the other little ups and downs of MY life.

 

[alden135]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

I can go into town and talk to at least three people in the space of fifteen minutes that have college degrees and are working crap jobs because that is all there is.

Clearly someone with that much education that isn't willing to relocate to earn a living isn't that smart to begin with.

EDIT
Maybe substitute my use of the word "smart" above with motivated.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Did i hear you say Humbug?
Some of you here should try living on the minium wage with zero benefits for a while, before castigating your less fortunate fellow Americans to a life of misery.

 

[treedancer]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

According this accounting website it will increase employment in the fast food industry.

A major crossroads in the opinions of many economists was a 1994 paper by economists David Card and Alan Krueger titled, “Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.” The paper documented the finding that employment in New Jersey fast-food restaurants increased after the state increased their minimum wage. Pennsylvania’s minimum wage remained unchanged and employment in Pennsylvanian fast food restaurants decreased.


http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=102723&d=815&h=817&f=816&dateformat=%o %B %Y

 

[ob]

Re: Don't raise the minimum wage!!!

Did i hear you say Humbug?
Some of you here should try living on the minium wage with zero benefits for a while, before castigating your less fortunate fellow Americans to a life of misery.

Who's castigating anyone?These workers aren't being held captive.We all worked low paying jobs at one time or another.The military paid me $162.50 every two weeks when I served.If I chose to attempt to raise a family on that salary,is the military not paying me a living wage,or have I put my horse before the carriage?Honestly,do you really feel that a guy in his forties flipping burgers has been disenfranchised to a life of misery by anyone but himself?Are you willing to pay $10 for a soy laden burger to provide a 'living wage' to him?