dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

all i have at this point is . . . . . .this SUCKS . . . . . . but on the plus side of things if i have to flip the bill for new crank and stuff like that, i do have the motor that came out of the boat, that motor ran till i took the head off of it (that was done for inspection looking for a cracked clock or head). That would also give me another set of rods to use.

i do not think that this oil pin has baffels in it, but i could be wrong dad is the one that tore it appart and he is now trying to try and figure out how to install some in this pan

i will defentally keep you all postedted on the the findings here. it might be a wile (next weekend) as i have to go back out on the road today

one last thing----after i pull the pan and if the pick up is still in place then that would be due to falty pump right? then wouldn't the pump manuifacture be responsible for the motor?? just a thought please input there.

many thanks to all that have helped on this and i wont give up just yet

 

[picklenjim]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

one last thing----after i pull the pan and if the pick up is still in place then that would be due to falty pump right? then wouldn't the pump manuifacture be responsible for the motor?? just a thought please input there.

many thanks to all that have helped on this and i wont give up just yet

Pump is going to have to be removed to see exactly what happened. There is not much at all to a pump that can go wrong. If the pick up is still in place than you need to find out why the distributor is not turning the pump. You could stick a big screwdriver down in the distributor hole and turn the pump just to see if it feels like the gears in the pump are turning. Depending on what is wrong with the pump will determine if they reimberse you anything . You may have damaged the pump coupling installing the distributor. Then again it may not even be the pump though I don't know why it wouldn't have been pumping oil out with the filter removed when you spun it with the drill.

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

i did notice a very slight differance between free spinning and when the oil pump drive tool (old 6 cyl chevy dist) was in the motor but it was nothing major as i could easly hold the drill still with one hand. now for the wishfull thinking here........

IF (and that is a very big IF) the pick up did come off and there is NOT a spun bearing (should i go play the lottery?) can i get away with putting a new set of bearings back in it, seam wealding the pick up back in place, new pan gasket, fresh and cheap oil and a new and cheap filter, re, reassemble all of it spin the oil pump (to see if i to can burn up a drill) to attempt to flush out the metallic particles (or shouldi use diesl for this?) then change the oil again and put a good filter and oil back in. if it didnt spin a rod would that be the game plan?

what would the proper was to break in the motor be?

 

[mkast]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

i could easly hold the drill still with one hand

Just curious, what size drill were you using, 1/4,3/8 or 1/2 inch chuck?

 

[90stingray]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

what would the proper was to break in the motor be?

I wouldn't load everyone up and jam the throttle home. Maybe run her on muffs in the drive, fire it up, time the engine, adjust carb, let it warm up, check for leaks, rev the throttle slightly to see how it's responding (and to lube the cam at different rpm's.) Put a couple hours on it in the driveway. Hit the water and take it easy... just enough throttle to get on plane and cruise around at different rpm's. Listen and watch for anything unusual. Break in usually consists of 10 hours before you can use it like you want to.

I wouldn't roll the dice and flush the engine. If there are metal pieces she needs torn down and cleaned and inspected. Think about how much care you put into the engine before... it's prolly hard to do, but i would treat it the same way the second time. Hope you find out what the smokin gun is. Goodluck!

 

[picklenjim]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

After reviewing your original build thread http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=469088&p=3190640#post3190640 I see you used the old pistons and rings and about all you really replaced new was the bearings and oil pump. This should only require little break in time. Looking at the pics you have on that thread I had said it appeared to have some unusual wear patterns on the bearings. The uneven pattern across the bearing means it wasn't making good square contact with the bearing. On pic #4 it looks as if some of the main caps you have laying against the journals. That's not good. If you nick a journal and raise the slightest burr it will tear a groove into the soft bearings. Also assembling the rods on the crank you must be very carefull not to nick the crank with the rod bolts. I usually put pieces of rubber hose over the rod bolts until the rod is in place on the crank. Also when you put the crank in the block and torque down the caps the crank should be able to spin with no resistance what so ever. If you turn it and feel the slightest resistance at any one point then the crank isn't perfectly straight and needs to be reground or the block may need to be aligne honed. You should actually be able to spin it and it should keep spinning 1-2 revolutions by it's self. You are going to have to get it apart and see what's happening. Personally if I had metallic particals all over I would totally disassemble and start clean. If the crank didn't spin over like I said earlier I would have it reground. If it has spun a bearing it will deffinately have to be reground or replaced. First you need to get it apart and go from there.

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

Just curious, what size drill were you using, 1/4,3/8 or 1/2 inch chuck?

1/2 inch chuck 600 watt motor on it (i just happen to check the box when dad handed it to me)

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

I wouldn't load everyone up and jam the throttle home. Maybe run her on muffs in the drive, fire it up, time the engine, adjust carb, let it warm up, check for leaks, rev the throttle slightly to see how it's responding (and to lube the cam at different rpm's.) Put a couple hours on it in the driveway. Hit the water and take it easy... just enough throttle to get on plane and cruise around at different rpm's. Listen and watch for anything unusual. Break in usually consists of 10 hours before you can use it like you want to.

I wouldn't roll the dice and flush the engine. If there are metal pieces she needs torn down and cleaned and inspected. Think about how much care you put into the engine before... it's prolly hard to do, but i would treat it the same way the second time. Hope you find out what the smokin gun is. Goodluck!

the part about being in the drive way and all that was done only thing i didnt do was after it was on the water hold it back

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

i went back and loooked at the picks and isee what you are talking about, i recall that i was very careful when i placed them on the block like that knowing that i was very close to the crank and didnt want to nick it at all. I do recall after dad had the pistons in you could turn it over really freely by hand, yes i tried that just to see. Dad had been turning wrenches for years and we have rebuilt a few motors together i am sure that he used the rubber hose on the rod bolts, if he didnt i would be really supprised

thank you all for all your input

 

[Pete104]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

Sure, it's worth a shot! It ain't a Lamborgini for Chri$t sake! Bond-o would tell you start from square one. Braze the pick-up in place. Just a drip or two.

 

[mkast]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/TechInfoVideos.aspx

Scroll down.

 

[Desertsky]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

Just a quick thing about breakin. Engines using anywhere near modern metalurgy and machining techniques will need only minimal breakin time. As a case in point, superbike engines are routinely rebuilt at the track and receive only a couple minutes of breakin before going out and being hammered for an hour or two. Same for top fuel drag engines and NASCAR. One school of thought for breakin says that the engine should not be babied too much as it will take too long for the parts to seat and actually will not last as long. For air cooled engines, longer breakin is recommended to prevent excess heat build up initially. Liquid cooled engines don't have that kind of restriction.

Regarding his engine, a complete tear down is needed. There is no way to know what and how much damage was done by running without oil pressure and anything short of that will only mean more cost. The old saying comes to mind: not enough time to do it right but plenty of time to do it over.

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

many thanks to all and for all the info so far. I do not know when i will be able get a chance to pull the motor outand tear into it i was just informed that i have to be in NJ on friday afternoon and then oxford NC pick up before i get to go back home .....aint life grand..... i will post something once i get to turn wrenches again

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

ok i finally mad it back home. some time in the afternoon i will be pulling that motor and maybe find oput what happened. i will keep ya posted

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

http://www.melling.com/Aftermarket/TechInfoVideos.aspx

Scroll down.

TIG WELD the pickup in place!!!!!!


Thanks for posting that link!!!

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

i dont have acess to a tig welder but there is both a arc and a wire there. my plan was to use the wire welder on it just to insure that it dont come off again. I am opnly going to be able to spend a couple hours on it tonight then it will prob be about 10 -14 days before i get to it again. in all honestly i hope that it is a falty pump (honestly i dont think it is) so i can have some one else do the work this time. IF (and that is a very big if here) it was just the pick up that came off would there be any harm in running that (what was new) pump again? No matter what i am going to have to replace the bearings (there is 100$ in the mains and another 14-18$ in rods). i will get some pics of the carnage and post what i can after. but for now it is off to fix lunch and build a outdrive stand. Just thinking of man handlelling that out drive again raises my blood pressure. Will i need to re align it all again since i am pulling the motor? i will not be changin anything on the mounts since i pull the lag bolts.

it always seems that stuff happens at the worst times, and this being one of them.

 

[alilley]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

warning this very well could be a long post.......

got the motor pulled out yesterday. pulled the pan off and the pick up was still in place. took pick up off and went to parts washer and it flowed sloveant through no problem (used only gravity) the we took the plate off the bottom of the pump off and all looked like new there. pup pick up back on pump and put it in a bucket of solvant and spum drill in both direction......nothing......took pick up off put the pump in enought to cover where the pick up slides in .....nothing .......submerged the pump after spinning it for a few seconds then it pumped.....put pick up back on.....it pumps.....what is it? a bad pump?

now good news it did not spin a bearing. Every bearing was in place and the placement tab was still like it should be. BUT every rod jernal is heavly scard and had small groves in it. all the rod bearings are ver heavly worn, 2 of them show copper. 1 got hot enough to turn the back side of it blue from heat. the main bearings staied in place as well, and did not scar the crank but they all do have copper showing as well. we looked further in the motor so see of a cam bearing came out(motor is not torn down we just pulled the pan) and from what can be seen right now the cam bearing are still in place but we can not see any wear on them since the cam is still in place.

now for a little infor.....i contacted o raily's where i bought the new pump and talked to the manager was then informed that if in deed the pump is defective there there is a chance a parts and labor claim could be filed to milan and for me to contact then since he didnt have any idea how their calmes works. i contacted them an i am to take the pump back to where i purchased it and they send it back to milan. milan then will test it to see if it is defective and if it is proven to be defective then they will review the parts and labor claim for repair as they do not replace a complete motor.

now for the questions......if it does come back as a defective pump and they front some $$$ for parts and labor do i replace crank cam lifters all bearings and a new gasket set and another new oil pump have block and head hot tanked again? mind you i was holding between 130 and 140 psi on compressionso i dont think that pistons and rings would need to be replaced. i can get a new crank and cam locally since a shop in my home town (effingham regrind) does have both crank and can in stock. what would you do is this situtation?

o i did forget to mention this....we did find a very thing piece of metal that could have passed for hevy alum foil. dad said it was laying on the in side of the block right by the oil pump area. and after i washed the junk out of the pan and set it down dad picked it up looked at it and set it back down then he heard a clunk in the bottom of the pan and there was something about the size of a dime in there that was broke off of somehting. i did get some pics of this piece as well as some of the bearings but they are a little fuzzy since my camera in my phone had a film of oil on it and i didnt know that till later. i will work on getting them posted soon

 

[Pete104]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

That just tells us the pick-up wasn't installed properly. Was it installed when you bought it? If it wasn't, they ain't gonna do beans!

 

[picklenjim]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

One thing I can tell ya is you can't test that pump with trying to pump solvent. It's way to thin for that type of pump. There's no way it would ever pull it up through the pick up into a dry pump. It may have pumped it after you submerged the pump and it was full. Try the test again with oil. Spin the pump with the pickup in oil and see if it draws it up and through the pump. Be sure there is some oil on the pump gears before you start. Pump cannot be totally dry as if it were just cleaned and assembled.

 

[Pete104]

Re: dropped oil pressure!!!!!!

That's why I'm thinking they "wrinkled" the pick-up when they slammed it in!