East coast verses West coast

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: East coast verses West coast

Efficiency and Angle of Attack<br />The graph in Figure 4-30 (above) shows how propeller efficiency increases and then decreases as angle of attack is increased. In the example, in Figure 4-30, efficiency peaks at approximately 80% (3 degree- 4 degree angle of attack) and begins to decline as the angle of attack increases beyond the optimum.<br /><br />Efficiency and Pitch / Diameter<br />In a given propeller series, the maximum possible efficiency decreases as pitch decreases. For example, a 23" pitch propeller with 13-1/2" diameter can have a peak efficiency of 80%, but a 13" pitch propeller with a 16" diameter can have a peak efficiency of only 65%. <br /><br />If all other variables remain unchanged, propeller efficiency increases as the pitch/diameter ratio increases.<br /><br /> <br /><br />© 2004 Mercury Marine<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Speed criteria Synchronous Variable Vapor pressure, rated psi.a <br />Speed set @ rpm Material <br />Impeller diameter, rated set @ 3.91 in Material requested AutoNot specifiedCast iron-BronzeCast iron - Stainless steel <br />Impeller diameter, maximum : 3.91 in Material selected : Not specified <br />Impeller diameter, minimum : 3.91 in Pressure Data <br />Efficiency : 73.34 (0.00) % % Maximum working pressure : 103.8 psi.g <br />NPSH required / margin required :N/A (0.00) / 0.00 N/A / 0.00 Working pressure limit : 606.0 psi.g <br />Ns / Nss : N/A Suction pressure limit : N/A <br /><br />I am entering this a little late. but if you can read through the goop posted above you will see that mercury states that the best efficiency that can be attained is 80%, the mess posted below is from Berkeley. It states that the best that can be attained from an impeller is 74%. I can state for a fact that this can be increased by backfiling the impeller or by coating it.<br /><br />Efficiencies over 80% can be achieved. I would assume that they are about the same as far as efficency is concerned. <br /><br />The efficiencies of the impeller refer to BEP (best efficiency point).<br /><br />I would have to assume that it would be somewhat equal in terms of milage.<br /><br />By applying the affinity law you can have a condition where the engine is producing far more horsepower than is required at low rpm, there lies your inefficiency with regards to the high fuel consumption and also why they level off at higher speeds where the engine hp equals the impeller potential.
 

sorrydog

Seaman
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
54
Re: East coast verses West coast

I have only read about jet drive technology, no hands-on experience. Everything is consistent. A jet drive has fewer moving parts, lower maintenance costs, and uses less fuel when compared to the same propulsion umph as a prop. My understanding (perhaps wrongly?) is that commercial airliners switched from props to jets not to save travel time, but for reasons of fuel economy (equates into greater travel distance) and reduced maintenance costs?jets are more efficient.
You sold me. How much do you think it would cost me to mount a GE turbofan on the back of my Hydrostream? Where do you think the best place to mounted it would be? Maybe even with the bottom of the boat?
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,754
Re: East coast verses West coast

Why would anyone compare the workings of a diesel powered high pressure jet engine, with the mechanics of a water pump being driven by a gasoline internal combustion engine?<br /><br />********************************************<br />If you go buy a jetdrive motor, you need to buy a 60hp motor to get 40 hp out the drive unit. .
 

KCook

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,624
Re: East coast verses West coast

roscoe .... shhhhh .... don't spoil the fun :D :D :rolleyes:
 

Kimmy

Recruit
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
4
Re: East coast verses West coast

Funny stuff, will those work on my HST :D ........( . )( . )..... :eek:
 

Kimmy

Recruit
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
4
Re: East coast verses West coast

Thanks for changing my name from Kimmy to the real thing :cool: ......( . )( . ).....
 

Capn Mike

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
561
Re: East coast verses West coast

ThomWV: "You get a scratch in the paint below the waterline and the (aluminum) boat can disolve so fast you won't know what hit it."<br />Gee, Thom, maybe you should advise the PacNW boating industry of your expertise. ;) <br />OK, I'll stop being sarcastic....while, in fact, that may be true of small "inland" aluminum boats, salt-water AL boats are made of alloys that are resistant to corrosion. Most of the Alaska/Canada/West Coast fishing industry uses aluminum...those that built in fiberglass find their boats depreciating much faster. Take a look at my favorite commercial broker http://www.gsiboat.com/index.html and see how much better the AL boats hold their value. Few of them have been painted...it's the alloy that's important, not the cover.
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: East coast verses West coast

30%figure is for outboard jets, the most ineffecient jet design on the market. i have read that some marine engineer types have recently learned that the mathamatical formulas that have "proven" the jet pumps to be less effecient at planing speeds than props don't. the assumptions used were wrong. there are many different pump designs out there and one size does not fit all. the best pump for a big block powered go fast 18-20' is a p** poor choice for the same length river sled. a hamilton 212 or kodiak 3 stage volume pump will eat gravel all day long and be ready for more tomorrow. pressure pumps like berkley and american turbine will ultimatly go much faster but gravel makes them sick quick. most peoples opinions of marine jet were formed from experiences with o/b jets or early attempts with hamilton/jaccuzi/ to go fast by just upping hp. a jets torque/hp input curve goes allmost straight up by the time they reach 4000=4500rpm with those designs. example is it takes 200 hp to reach 4000rpm in my boat. my bud's needs 450 hp to get 5000rpm. a 20%increase in rpm requiring a 120% increase in power. this type of power difference used to be achieved by increasing the cid. small block to big block with corresponding increases of fuel consumption throughout the rpm range. he is getting this hp out of a 350cid engine and at cruise rpm befor secondaries open is getting about 6-6.5 gph at 35 mph. doesnt matter that boats are different lengths and weight because a pump sees same load tied to the dock or going 60mph. you won't see high production boat makers using jets any time soon because one size does not fit all like i/os and hulls must be molded for most pumps in the design stage. not as easy as build a boat and then cut the right size/shape hole in the transom to suit the desired power package. a well designed boat/engine/pump package is a thing of joy for its ease of operation, ease of repair, its simplicity of design and long life. i would rather clear some lilly pad out of my intake than replace a prop or two every time i run over a stick. i,ve got 14 jet mfgs bookmarked and only one is a jacuzzi/berkely/american turbine,etc pressure pump and no o/b or pwc makers and no sports jet style. rolls royce marine division is there though.
 

KCook

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
1,624
Re: East coast verses West coast

Great info akriverrat. :) But I'm a little slow to catch up here.<br />
i,ve got 14 jet mfgs bookmarked and only one is a jacuzzi/berkely/american turbine,etc pressure pump
Are you saying the Berkely types are the gas guzzlers? If so, what other brands would be good for a lake toy? (Not a river sled application)<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Kelly
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: East coast verses West coast

Good info Ak. I have always assumed the 30% was a blanket statement and that there had to be more efficient pumps out there. I have an increasing desire to own a jet sled but the wallet factor is still a limiter. I just got a new publication called River Jet, a magazine dedicated to jet sleds and the associated activity. Not surpisingly it is a PNW magazine mainly geared towards this area. It has a buyers guide to jet boats and other cool stuff. I want one....
 

akriverrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
588
Re: East coast verses West coast

no, i am not saying the pressure pumps are the gas guzzlers. fine design in the right hull. most designs are great in the right application. pressure pump in light fast boat, volume pump in heavier slower boats. very very general statement. one size, one design, does not fit all. check these two sites for example. http://www.marinejet.com/home.html and http://www.berkeleyjet.com/ first are volume pumps and second pressure pumps. lake toy...mercury sports jet would be my choice.
 
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