Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

[Ridemywideglide]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

But how bad would it be if drivers licenses weren't required. Forget drivers education and licensing. Just throw keys to the just turned 16 year old and let him loose. Does that make any sense??? If you answered no, then think about boats. A person with absolutely no boating experience can go buy a boat, immediately go drop it in the water and start tearing up the water. All without even the slightest hint of any type of education and it is all perfectly legal. In many states you can do this and not even have insurance. Doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me.

If 23 cars on the road, on Saturday, was busy traffic, then you wouldn't see licensing requirements in cars either.
I am a person with no boating experience, who went an bought a boat and dropped it in the water, and in my state insurance is not required.
I did, however, take the State Approved Boaty Saftey Course. You wanna talk about a joke. I learned more about boat saftey watching Deadiest Catch. The test is geared toward 12y/o kids. The guys administering the test even asked why someone my age was taking it.
As noted above, it covered more about open water nav bouys than anything else. Not something I'll be needing in the Colorado lakes.
Most of life in general is common sense. You can't enforce a test for that. Enforcing boating licenses will keep a few retards off the water, just like it keeps a few retards off the road. But again, the masses are paying for the stupidity of the few. There's always some jagoff out there who thinks fuel safety is holding the cigarette in his left hand, and the fuel nozzle in his right. And this will be the same jagoff who just passed your mandated license exam.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

as said 100 years ago we did not have drivers licenses, and when they were required, there were the same arguments. i the last 50 years the # of boats on the water has increase tremendously.

 

[Shadow66]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

And I suppose you never see this kind of ignorance in your car.? All licensed drivers you come accross fully know and obey the proper laws, and never require you do the incorrect thing to make up for thier ignorance....?

It's pretty useless, unless your a pro big gov't liberal, to establish a licence requirement. As said before, the insurance requirement get's 10 of thousands hit by uninsured drivers every year. And I've heard it estimated that half the cars you pass everyday are doing something illegal. Rather it's no valid license, driving under the influence, smoking crack, whatever.
Having a license sure stops all them doesn't it...?

Then there would have to be enforcement. Which we already don't have. You think that would change? I've NEVER seen a DOW officer at any lake I've been to in all of my life.. How sad is that..
I've seen the mussel inspectors check my boat more times than I've seen the people who are supposed to be out there upholding the law.
Do I mind? Not in the least. But it's yet another example of why the government would be the only beneficiary of a boat licensing program.

That's not the point. I for one didn't know anything about boats, boating or any laws of the waterways at all. Taking the safety course (as did with the MSF course for Motorcycles) gave me a working knowledge of the way it's supposed to be. IN GENERAL.

So what if some cars don't obey the laws? You still get in it and trust that most people will stop for the light right? That's because we all learned to by observation and from taking courses and tests. I had no one I knew who had a boat, so I needed this course.

If others were required to take it at least the fundamentals of the water would become safer. So many on here are so damned worried about "Big Brother" that they miss the benefits.

Example, How many people here in my State know it is illegal to come within 50yds of a moored boat? Not enough. I spoke with one guy who I pointed that out to and he said "Ooh, sorry I didn't know."

Now he is not a jerk, or an ***. He just didn't know what he was supposed to learn and know. He never HAD to take a course...so therefore he may have known. Yes he could have looked it up, but should it be the fact that he did not we don't teach him and give him a working knowledge?

And ya know what...stop with this "big leberal" BS. What the H*!l is up with that? I am not a Liberal nor pro anything here except safer waterways and educated people. I am also not some Rush Limbaugh listening conservative either. You are pushing some damned agenda here and it is obvious to me.

We're talking about making a required safety course for boaters. Stop talking about politics for one minute...you are confusing your crusade with the real subject. And what's up with all the "retard" comments? Man, how self righteous.

Now, arguing on the internet is stupid. You nor me are going to change what is. You can speak it to those who can make a change or you can scream about politics, actually convincing no one. Anyone who is agreeing with you already did before hand.

 

[smclear]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

I am also 100% in favor of requiring boater education. The reason is simple. Just go to any area where there is a good amount of boating activity and you will see people operating boats in a manner that is contrary to regulations. True the regulations are there, but in many cases it is a matter of an operator just not knowing that he is even breaking the regulations. Education will teach people what the regulations are, but for many if you don't mandate it they will never do it.

Those that say "just enforce the regulations already on the books". Fine, but get ready for fee hikes there to pay for more DNR, Coast Guard, Marine police, etc... There simply aren't enough enforcers in most areas to adequately do this. If you want more, then the money will come from somewhere like increased boat registration fees, higher use taxes, etc... Enforcing laws or mandating education, either one is going to cost.

The way I would like to see it implemented is a free online course where you register, complete the course, and then print out a certificate of completion. The economic impact would be small and enforcement of the education requirement would be easier. All you would need is one officer at a boat ramp checking certificates instead of a officer in a boat trolling around looking for violators. Spot checking at boat ramps would get the word out that it is now a requirement.

I say we need something because I see far too many boaters that don't know the regulations. Last year a guy came zipping up to the dock on-plane in a 20 footer or so right till the end. My boat was tied to the dock, but I saw him coming and was able to hold it off from smashing into the dock. I yelled at him that he was supposed to be no-wake within 150 feet. He was appologetic and said he didn't know and he had only had the boat for about a month. After I calmed down I told him about some of the on-line courses he could take and he said he would do it. I hope he did.

You bring up some good points but think of this scenario. In many states, drivers education is required before you get a drivers license. Even if not required, you still have to pass a drivers test. Therefore, you should be aware of the most fundamental laws re: driving. Now look at how many drivers obey those same laws. Not very many. But... when a police officer is spotted, it's amazing how many cars suddenly slow down, begin to use their signals and just generally obey the rules.

No one can argue the benefits of education, but education alone doesn't guarantee anything. More law enforcement presence would have a much more positive result. The cost argument is a valid one. However I would be willing to pay slightly higher registration/user fees to cover this. A testing/licensing program would not be free. You would pay those fees anyway (in higher taxes) if the State, DNR, Coast Guard, or whoever was designated, began a testing/licensing program.

 

[109jb]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

If 23 cars on the road, on Saturday, was busy traffic, then you wouldn't see licensing requirements in cars either.

Where you boat there may only be 23 boats. Fine, but take a look at other places. On a weekend at my launch 23 boats is about 15 minutes and there are 4 launch lanes and a half hour wait to get to one.

I am a person with no boating experience, who went an bought a boat and dropped it in the water, and in my state insurance is not required.
I did, however, take the State Approved Boaty Saftey Course. You wanna talk about a joke. I learned more about boat saftey watching Deadiest Catch. The test is geared toward 12y/o kids. The guys administering the test even asked why someone my age was taking it.
As noted above, it covered more about open water nav bouys than anything else. Not something I'll be needing in the Colorado lakes.

You mean it didn't cover right of way rules, regulations, required equipment, give tips on docking, launching, etc. I say BULL Sh!+. It did cover those things and some of those things and others aren't obvious.

Most of life in general is common sense. You can't enforce a test for that. Enforcing boating licenses will keep a few retards off the water, just like it keeps a few retards off the road.

Boater education isn't intended to keep people off the water, but to make them safer and better EDUCATED about what they are about to do. The Retard is the retard, but the guy that just didn't know will learn and be safer. When the guy I mentioned before that was on-plane within 150 feet of a dock got yelled at by me I guess that's the way we should all learn about the rules. Break them until someone tells us that we are breaking a rule.

But again, the masses are paying for the stupidity of the few. There's always some jagoff out there who thinks fuel safety is holding the cigarette in his left hand, and the fuel nozzle in his right. And this will be the same jagoff who just passed your mandated license exam.

Someone who ignores the rules is one thing. Someone who never knew them in the first place is the reason mandatory education is needed.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

The reason we need laws is we are a nation of idiots.

I wish we didn't need laws, but guess what, we do. You guys would change your tune if some boater with no knowledge kills someone in your family.

Just because some idiot took a class and got his certificate doesn't mean he's not going to kill someones family member. If this was true there would be no fatal car crashes.

I'm against it. Enforce the laws we already have! Government has screwed up the country enough.

 

[witenite0560]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

I have to agree there is a lot of fluff in the Boating Safety Course. It's still good info.
Granted, I live in the Great State with more "Navigable waters" (by definition of the Idaho State code) than any other. However, only about a mile, at the confluence of the Snake and Clearwater rivers, have any significant navigation markers. There might be some up in the two big northern lakes, but I've never been on those lakes. There isn't a lock in the state and hardly anyone is on the water after dark. So, the course would be better if it addressed more boating safety and less navigation. But, that's what you get when you adapt a general course for use. I'm sure it would be expensive to design a course for every state and situation and we'd bear the costs. A little extraneaous information can't hurt me.
That's no excuse for the knuckleheads on Lucky Peak lake, probably the most congested in the State, who ignore practically all bouys, signage and common sense. My point is, though by all means I endorse taking the course, the only thing that will really make a difference is penalizing those individuals who break the already existing and adequate laws.
Requiring a boating license, at least in this part of the country, would just be more Gov't red tape and meddling. Now, I might feel differently were I on big river, tidal or coastal waters. Unfortunately, when you get politicians/attorneys meddling in things we'll end up with conditions where a 10 year old isn't allowed to put a rubber raft in a duck pond without a life vest, registration and laminated license.

 

[Ridemywideglide]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

That's not the point. I for one didn't know anything about boats, boating or any laws of the waterways at all. Taking the safety course (as did with the MSF course for Motorcycles) gave me a working knowledge of the way it's supposed to be. IN GENERAL.

So what if some cars don't obey the laws? You still get in it and trust that most people will stop for the light right? That's because we all learned to by observation and from taking courses and tests. I had no one I knew who had a boat, so I needed this course.

If others were required to take it at least the fundamentals of the water would become safer. So many on here are so damned worried about "Big Brother" that they miss the benefits.

Example, How many people here in my State know it is illegal to come within 50yds of a moored boat? Not enough. I spoke with one guy who I pointed that out to and he said "Ooh, sorry I didn't know."

Now he is not a jerk, or an ***. He just didn't know what he was supposed to learn and know. He never HAD to take a course...so therefore he may have known. Yes he could have looked it up, but should it be the fact that he did not we don't teach him and give him a working knowledge?

And ya know what...stop with this "big leberal" BS. What the H*!l is up with that? I am not a Liberal nor pro anything here except safer waterways and educated people. I am also not some Rush Limbaugh listening conservative either. You are pushing some damned agenda here and it is obvious to me.

We're talking about making a required safety course for boaters. Stop talking about politics for one minute...you are confusing your crusade with the real subject. And what's up with all the "retard" comments? Man, how self righteous.

Now, arguing on the internet is stupid. You nor me are going to change what is. You can speak it to those who can make a change or you can scream about politics, actually convincing no one. Anyone who is agreeing with you already did before hand.

You may get in your car and trust that everyone will do the right thing, and that's your right. It's ignorant, but it's your right. Try having a picnic near a 4 way stop sometime. The majority of the cars you will see have no idea how to operate a simple 4 way stop. But these people all took, and passed (supposedly anyway) a state mandated drivers test. And as far as kids go, they all have to take drivers ed, and online classes (alive at 25) AND carry a permit for 1 year before being allowed to get a license, AND cannot have more than 1 occupant under 18 with them, UNLESS they have an occupant over 18 as well... And you know what? Teen auto fatalities are still up... Hmm.. How come all this "big brother" intervention isn't helping? I thought that requiring a license AND drivers ed AND a test AND, AND,AND,,, would educate them....?

People will do what people want to do REGARDLESS of what they've been taught, if that's how they are.... This doesn't mean I think everyone is out for themselves and doesn't give a crap about anyone else. But historically, a large % out there don't care, and forcing everyone to pay up and get the education, and take the test, and carry the license, WILL DO NOTHING. The problem is, those uf us that DO care about boating safely, already took a test, or educated ourselves in some way, so WE would be safe.
I'm not pushing any agenda, other than the one that keeps more government regulation out of my pocket and life.

You mean it didn't cover right of way rules, regulations, required equipment, give tips on docking, launching, etc. I say BULL Sh!+. It did cover those things and some of those things and others aren't obvious.

I think you should go read my post again. I didn't say it didn't include anything else, I said "As noted above, it covered more about open water nav bouys than anything else." If you would like to start throwing around the foul language and infering things like "liar", we could do that.. Wouldn't get very far.
You can go online and get a copy of the exam material sent to you for free. Then you can come back here and stick that comment in some small, dark place below your waistline.

Boater education isn't intended to keep people off the water, but to make them safer and better EDUCATED about what they are about to do. The Retard is the retard, but the guy that just didn't know will learn and be safer. When the guy I mentioned before that was on-plane within 150 feet of a dock got yelled at by me I guess that's the way we should all learn about the rules. Break them until someone tells us that we are breaking a rule.

This is probably the same guy that continues to drive 40 down my 20mph street. Even tho there is a large sign, and everyother week there is a radar station parked nearby. When I kick the tricycle out in front of him, and he drives into someones car trying to avoid it, maybe then he will learn.

Your right that education isn't intended to keep people off the water. The test however, IS.. And it rightly should be. This was the intention of the drivers license as well. We all see how well that has worked. I'm not a perfect driver, but I DO know the laws, and I see people doing the dumbest crap everyday, because they have no clue, nor care, even though they were educated to pass the test.

Someone who ignores the rules is one thing. Someone who never knew them in the first place is the reason mandatory education is needed.

If you think mandatory education means everyone will suddenly follow the rules, your worse off than I think you are. This is the same ignorant logic that gets gun bills passed, leading to "law biding citizens" who can't defend themselves from the "criminals" who still have no trouble getting a gun.

 

[Ridemywideglide]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

My point is, though by all means I endorse taking the course, the only thing that will really make a difference is penalizing those individuals who break the already existing and adequate laws.
Requiring a boating license, at least in this part of the country, would just be more Gov't red tape and meddling. Now, I might feel differently were I on big river, tidal or coastal waters. Unfortunately, when you get politicians/attorneys meddling in things we'll end up with conditions where a 10 year old isn't allowed to put a rubber raft in a duck pond without a life vest, registration and laminated license.

This is the best post on this page.

They got tired of people driving drunk, so they hired more officers. When they get tired of people driving at full throttle through the no wake zones, they will hire more officers. More laws do nothing when there is no one to enforce them.

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

But... I'm no safer than I was before, and I've forgotten all the buoy stuff (except to stay between the red and green buoys )

Wow! Staying between the red and green buoys can be exactly the wrong thing to do! If you go somewhere that you need to use buoys you best review that information

 

[109jb]

Re: Education Requirement for Rec Boat Operators

You may get in your car and trust that everyone will do the right thing, and that's your right. It's ignorant, but it's your right. Try having a picnic near a 4 way stop sometime. The majority of the cars you will see have no idea how to operate a simple 4 way stop. But these people all took, and passed (supposedly anyway) a state mandated drivers test. And as far as kids go, they all have to take drivers ed, and online classes (alive at 25) AND carry a permit for 1 year before being allowed to get a license, AND cannot have more than 1 occupant under 18 with them, UNLESS they have an occupant over 18 as well... And you know what? Teen auto fatalities are still up... Hmm.. How come all this "big brother" intervention isn't helping? I thought that requiring a license AND drivers ed AND a test AND, AND,AND,,, would educate them....?

People will do what people want to do REGARDLESS of what they've been taught, if that's how they are.... This doesn't mean I think everyone is out for themselves and doesn't give a crap about anyone else. But historically, a large % out there don't care, and forcing everyone to pay up and get the education, and take the test, and carry the license, WILL DO NOTHING. The problem is, those uf us that DO care about boating safely, already took a test, or educated ourselves in some way, so WE would be safe.
I'm not pushing any agenda, other than the one that keeps more government regulation out of my pocket and life.



I think you should go read my post again. I didn't say it didn't include anything else, I said "As noted above, it covered more about open water nav bouys than anything else." If you would like to start throwing around the foul language and infering things like "liar", we could do that.. Wouldn't get very far.
You can go online and get a copy of the exam material sent to you for free. Then you can come back here and stick that comment in some small, dark place below your waistline.


This is probably the same guy that continues to drive 40 down my 20mph street. Even tho there is a large sign, and everyother week there is a radar station parked nearby. When I kick the tricycle out in front of him, and he drives into someones car trying to avoid it, maybe then he will learn.

Your right that education isn't intended to keep people off the water. The test however, IS.. And it rightly should be. This was the intention of the drivers license as well. We all see how well that has worked. I'm not a perfect driver, but I DO know the laws, and I see people doing the dumbest crap everyday, because they have no clue, nor care, even though they were educated to pass the test.



If you think mandatory education means everyone will suddenly follow the rules, your worse off than I think you are. This is the same ignorant logic that gets gun bills passed, leading to "law biding citizens" who can't defend themselves from the "criminals" who still have no trouble getting a gun.

Lets see. You said in your post the the training you took was "a joke" and you learned more about boating from Deadliest catch. So the training would not teach anyone anything is what I INFERRED from those statements. As far as the foul language and my inferring you were lying, I was inferring that you were exaggerating and not giving the training even close to a fair shake. The training courses are geared toward the 12 year olds so that they can understand the topics. That doesn't mean the content within is meaningless. A person who knows nothing about boats can learn a lot from one of those courses, geared toward kids or not. I stand by that.

If you want to talk about insults, how about you flat out stating that I and another member are ignorant. Read your post because those insults are there. Ignorant is believing that someone can follow the rules when they don't even know what the rules are. If we could learn the rules by osmosis then maybe training programs aren't necessary.

As far as all the terrible drivers out there, how bad would they be without ANY training?? And you should get your facts straight. Studies show that graduated drivers licenses for teenagers do reduce fatalities. For your own state of Colorado, which implemented graduated drivers licenses in 1999, 2004 had 96 teen driving deaths, 2005 had 79, 2006 had 62, and 2007 had 43. Sure seems like a drop to me. Seems like those laws worked.

Some people will go out of their way to learn things on their own, and SOME people will do what they want when they want no matter what, I'll give you that. However that leaves the third group that won't go out of their way to learn the rules, but would make an attempt to do the right thing if they know what that is. Those are the people that mandatory training will help and that is a large group in my opinion.

As far as this comment:

You can go online and get a copy of the exam material sent to you for free. Then you can come back here and stick that comment in some small, dark place below your waistline.

You are only showing your own intelligence.

Have a nice day. I'm done.