electrical starting problems

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
My engine will not start. Figured it was electrical by the symptoms. Turn key, get one click sound from motor area and that was it. Took off the started and had it tested, its good. I then got a new battery, connecting wires and solendoid to try and fix this, still no start, but now even the 1 click I heard is gone. The engine will start if I go direct from the positive battery terminal to the starter. I tried bridging the solenoid and that did not work. The starter switch is good because of the click and the fact the other electronics come on including the electric choke. I checked and rechecked the safety switch as well. I finally just removed it. The 2 fuses, one behind the key switch and the one at the "fuse box" are both good. I am stumped. Anyone have any ideas :confused: ? It is a 1969 Evinrude Triumph 55 Outboard. Model# 55973A and serial # JO4897. Thanks Rick
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: electrical starting problems

Howdy RT2M.<br /><br />The FAQ troubleshooting article for "Outboard Wont Start" should lead you to the cause of your trouble.<br /><br />Good luck. :)
 

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
Re: electrical starting problems

It did not help. So here is the details so far. The old solenoid clicked but the wire/voltage tests indicated that it was bad. So I replaced it, so then there was no click at all with the new solenoid. I put the old solenoid back on and it still clicked but the engine will still not start. SOOOooo I bought another new solenoid. NO click again. I am stumped. The starter works as I had it tested. The key switch works, because of the clicking and the choke solenoid engaging. I went to the trouble shooting FAQ section of this website and followed the instructions for both a clicking and non clicking solenoid. Still it does not work. Anybody have an idea of what I am missing here? Part of the FAQ is not clear as to testing the small solenoid terminal when there is no click to the solenoid. First of all there are two small terminals and is that supposed to be with the key cranked or not. Because I have o volts when key is off and 12 when I crank it on the top small terminal and 0 and 0 on the bottom one, so which do I follow in my troubleshooting? OK...I am getting no power to my safety switch either now. Could it be the wires? HELP PLEASE
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: electrical starting problems

Hey Rich,<br />Gotcha fixed. Put a ground wire on the small terminal, on the solenoid, that doesn't have the wire from the switch. Just run a wire from it to the bolt that holds it on the block.<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
Re: electrical starting problems

If you are referring to the terminal that does not get "hot" when I crank the key, then that did not work either. After that I even ran the ground wire right to the negative on the battery. Still no click from the solenoid, no power to the safety switch and no start.....Next?!!!??!??
 

OBJ

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
10,161
Re: electrical starting problems

Rick....I'm thinking that even though your accesories work and primer works when the key is depressed, the key switch is at fault. Your key switch has more than one contact point in it. The "start" contact could be burnt or broke even though the others such as the primer and accesories are still working. You may be able to test this theory by putting a volt meter at the solenoid. Black to ground and the red lead to the small post on the solenoid with the white wire. Turn the key and see what the meter says.<br /><br />Keep us posted.
 

Xcusme

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2003
Messages
2,888
Re: electrical starting problems

solenoid.jpg
<br />Rick,<br /><br />I've enclosed a small drawing shamelessly stolen from another site. You said that you removed the neutral safety switch for testing purposes, lets leave it jumped out for now. The picture shows a typical wiring for a solenoid without a neutral safety switch. This switch could go between the ignition switch and terminal S, or it could go between terminal ( I ) and ground. In either location, the safety switch will open the circuit if you're not in neutral and no voltage would get to the solenoid. For this explanation, we'll not show it for simplicity. Just make sure it's not just disconnected and the wires hanging 'open'. If the wires are disconnected from the safety switch, be sure you connect the 2 ends, this will complete the circuit, as it shows in the drawing.<br /><br />Terminal S gets voltage only when the key is turned to the start position. This voltage goes into the solenoid ( the coil of the solenoid) and comes out the other small terminal ( I ), which then goes to a ground connection, and the solenoid closes, sending voltage to the starter. .<br /><br />If you put your test meter red lead on Terminal S, black test lead to ground, and turn the key to the start position, you should see 12VDC. This shows that you are getting voltage TO the solenoid from the ignition switch. If you have no voltage, there is an 'open' or break in the wire going back to the ignition switch, OR the ignition switch is not getting voltage in the first place.<br /><br />To test the coil of the solenoid, leave the black test lead on ground.<br />Remove the ( I ) wire from the solenoid.<br />Put your red test lead on the ( I ) terminal of the solenoid and turn the key.<br />Again , you should see 12VDC on your meter.<br />Replace the wire going to the ( I ) terminal.<br />This shows that voltage it going thru the coil, which is good.<br />If you don't get 12VDC, the coil is 'Open' and you have a defective solenoid.<br /><br />The last thing to check is the wire ( I ) going to ground. As Hooty as suggested, run a wire from terminal ( I ) to a good ground connection and try again. <br /><br />Since you said that you have already tried Hooty's suggestion and it still won't work that leaves only a couple of things to check.<br /><br />Try this:<br />Turn the key to the run position<br />Jump Terminal A and terminal S. This will simulate turning the key to the start position by applying voltage to the S terminal. If this closes the solenoid and the starter spins, look for a bad ignition wire from the key switch. <br /><br />It's very possible, as suggested by OBJ, that the "Start' terminal on the key switch is burnt or only making enough contact to supply minimal voltage/current to the solenoid. This will still show up on the test meter as 12VDC, but will not be able to supply enough current to close the solenoid, stupid I know , but that electronics for ya. Replace the key switch.<br /><br />Last test:<br />Test meter black lead to ground<br />Test meter red lead to terminal B<br />Turn key to start <br />If you read 12VDC, the solenoid is closing as it should but theres not enough current to spin the motor, look for bad connections at the battery, solenoid connections A & B , and the starter connection and the starter ground (mounting bolts for the starter).<br /><br />Needless to say, starters draw large amounts of current to spin the motor and the connections at the battery, solenoid and starter must be clean and tight. Corroded connections can still show 12VDC voltages but NOT be able to pass the current needed to spin the starter. <br /><br />This info should keep you busy for awhile. Keep us posted on your progress.
 

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
Re: electrical starting problems

OK, seems I am not as dumb as I felt. It appears that I was doing everything I was supposed to be and checking all that I should and all of you had good trouble shooting leads and ideas. Here is the skinny of it....I took it to an outboard motor repair shop and gave them the whole story. They guy said to try ANOTHER new solendoid. But not to use one from and auto shop (he even admitted he is not even sure what the difference is but he has seen it before, they can seem identical but there is somehthing different). So on with the new solenoid and BAM...started on the first crank. <br />It has something to do with the solenoid being grounded through its body via where it bolts to the block. Apparently it cant do that or be that type of solenoid, it only needs grounded via the small posts. There you have it. Thanks all for your insight and assistance. Dont worry the boat is very old and I am sure I can come up with more challenges for you.
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: electrical starting problems

Apparently it cant do that or be that type of solenoid, it only needs grounded via the small posts. <br /><br />In other words the small post must be grounded?<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
Re: electrical starting problems

Yes, which it was all along. But the automotive type solenoid also being grounded via its body, it just monkeyed up the works. I am still not sure why but the boats runs so I am off into the great blue.
 

Rturn2mow

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
9
Re: electrical starting problems

When you say I hear ya Hootie. What exactly did you mean?
 
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