Electronic Ignition

[BigManDan72]

I thought this question might trigger some quasi-heated conversation and you guys have not disappointed Thanks for the great input, information and opinions. I think, at the end of the day, going back to the standard ignition system is not necessarily a bad thing and it will be easier for me, a hack mechanic at best, to maintain. Since this is an OLD boat (1985) I don't want to put tons of money into it to keep it running.

 

[bruceb58]

Honestly though, that's your only option for getting rid of the original points. No one else makes something worth buying?

The OP doesn't have the option but if this was a Chevrolet engine and it had points, I would switch to a Delco Voyager EST system in a heart beat since it is what new engines come with. In fact, I have a Delco system ready to drop into my Volvo engine since the one it has in it is obsolete and would be tough to get going again if and when it fails.

 

[JimS123]

In my 60 years of boating I have had only 2 catastrophic failures that caused me to call for a tow. The first was a starter failure on a 3 month old Mercruiser, which was covered on warranty.

The second was an ignition breakdown on a points/condenser system the day after the Mercruiser received a PM tuneup with all new parts. THAT was what prompted the conversion to Pertronics, and that was 18 years ago. Also, the timing was set 18 years ago and has never needed to be readjusted again.

 

[Blind Date]

"The OP doesn't have the option but if this was a Chevrolet engine and it had points, I would switch to a Delco Voyager EST system in a heart beat since it is what new engines come with."

I should have put 2 & 2 together. He's running a 470 so again it makes sense that his options are pretty limited. I take back what I said about his mechanic.

I'm starting to see the light!...LOL

 

[thumpar]

True the oem electronic stuff is WAY better than pertronix stuff...

The biggest point I was making tho is that a points system isn't bad...
When I said it was more reliable than an electronic system I didn't mean that electronics were horrible... Where the points would rate I'd say about 99% reliable I'd give oem electronics about 95% and and aftermarket about 85%.... No hard math here, just some quick numbers off the top of my head to illustrate my thoughts.

My latest boat has thunderbolt IV ign and I'm just fine with it tho if it fails it'll be hundreds of dollars to fix vs $10 if it had points.

I have never read of a Pertronix unit fail on it's own. The only time I have seen them not work is when the person installing didn't do it correctly or the user left the key on with an original Pertronix (it says not to do that in the instructions). I think 20 years and 10 years on units it is a pretty good track record, especially considering all the maintenance that didn't have to be done.

 

[bruceb58]

I think 20 years and 10 years on units it is a pretty good track record,

And some people have had Mercruiser 470s and OMC stringer drives and never had a problem either.

 

[thumpar]

And some people have had Mercruiser 470s and OMC stringer drives and never had a problem either.

I don't thing that is an equal comparison though. The 470 had weaknesses built in and the OMC was obsolete by the manufacturer. My boat has the first year of fuel injection on the 5.7l. It is still going strong and would not go back to a carb. I know that some don't like technology and moving forward and like to fix their points every other year or worst case get stranded by them.

 

[bruceb58]

like to fix their points every other year or worst case get stranded by them.

Had 4 boats with points and have been boating since 1972. Never got stranded by points once. One boat had over 1000 hours on it. We took our boats far off shore and far up the Canadian coast away form any repair facility. Yes, we would carry a spare set of points but never needed them.

Also flew a bunch of airplanes which all had points. Never had an engine failure from them either. BTW, a pertronix type ignition was not allowed to replace points.

I don't thing that is an equal comparison though. The 470 had weaknesses built in and the OMC was obsolete by the manufacturer.

You missed my point entirely but thanks for proving it!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Had 4 boats with points and have been boating since 1972. Never got stranded by points once.

My last boat was a 66 MrkTwain. Ran 39 years with points. I am sure they got replaced a few times but the engine never failed because of them. My last engine (1987 OMG 460) ran nearly 20 years with points that probably got replaced a couple of times but I never replaced them.

I put a Pertronix ignition module in my 55 Ford truck and had nothing but problems with it. I am not sold on Pertronix..........It's not going back in.

ymmv...........

Rick

 

[Lou C]

Well there aren't too many people old enough here that actually drove cars that had points in them, like I did for about the first 8 years of my driving career...(first car we had with electronic was a 1975 Olds Delta 88 that we bought in '78).
Cars with points....
1965 VW Beetle, owned approx 4 years, one failure due to a bad condenser
1970 Ford Torino, owned approx 7 years, no ignition failures
1972 Chevrolet Impala, owned 4 years, no ignition failures

Cars in our family with electronic
1975 Olds, one failure of bad module
1978 Pontiac Le Mans, same thing

The cars with points usually got a new set every 1-2 years so yes there was maintenance to do.
The boat, my '88 F/W H-200 has points never had a starting failure, owned 13 years. Points changed 2x in that time. Yes they lasted that long before getting pitted. I would not be against a GM EST system, but aftermarket ignition makes me a bit uneasy. Points are easy to fix when they do have an issue.

 

[BigManDan72]

Here's an update on this situation (I'm the OP):

I talked to the mechanic yesterday and he has been unable to source the parts necessary to take me back to a points and condensor ignition system. So the only option available to me, he said, is to install another electronic ignition kit (though not his preferred solution). He quoted the kit at $375 plus a few more parts rounding out to $425 in parts alone. Adding a few hours of labor for his troubleshooting and installation of the new kit the bill will be over $700 . . . . OUCH!! That's 20% of what I paid for the boat a couple of months ago.

Making matters worse, I'm convinced now that I created the problem by leaving the key ignition switch in the "on" position for a period of time that I was troubleshooting another problem. In a car that wouldn't be a problem nor would it have been in a boat with a conventional ignition I don't believe. Live and learn I guess.

I hope buying this old boat doesn't become one of the worst decisions I've ever made.

 

[bruceb58]

If your not in a big hurry, there are some on ebay.

Just do a search for mercruiser 470 distributor

Here are a couple.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-3...BWKCTC&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-3...tWIwoH&vxp=mtr

 

[JimS123]

Old boats can be money pits for sure. Getting a new mechanic, like someone previously suggested, sounds like the best solution.

A Pertronics "KIT" is about $75. Slightly over $100 if you get a new coil too. Add a few more bucks for a distributor cap if needed. The $350 quote sounds bogus. Now, if a 488 requires something special, than I will stand corrected.

Pertronics uses the existing distributor and cap. If your unit is truly bad, seems like all you need to replace is the unit.

 

[BigManDan72]

Old boats can be money pits for sure. Getting a new mechanic, like someone previously suggested, sounds like the best solution.

A Pertronics "KIT" is about $75. Slightly over $100 if you get a new coil too. Add a few more bucks for a distributor cap if needed. The $350 quote sounds bogus. Now, if a 488 requires something special, than I will stand corrected.

Pertronics uses the existing distributor and cap. If your unit is truly bad, seems like all you need to replace is the unit.

I kinda feel like I'm stuck with this guy because he's put a good bit of time into troubleshooting the issue but I don't see him getting my business in the future. I spoke to another mechanic earlier this week and while he told me horror stories about how hard my 488 is to maintain he at least seemed willing and able to work on it. He'll get my business going forward I believe.

 

[BigManDan72]

And I agree that the price for the electonic ignition kit seems high. I've googled a number of them and the most expensive one I found that was supposed to work with the 3.7L was $150 or so.

 

[southkogs]

A little off-topic: As a (now former) owner of an "vintage" boat ... with a "vintage-er" drive ...

Use the collective wisdom of this forum to become your own mechanic as much as possible. Give yourself the extra patience to take a little longer to get it done, and goof up here and there ... but in the end you'll be far more confident in the boat and that you know what's going on with it. It'll also save you a TON of money.

On my best days, I'm a mediocre mechanic. And with the forums here, a little YouTubin', and a good manual, I was able to keep my old boat going for years with minimal trouble and a pretty limited expense.

Back on topic: ran the points ignition on my boat for all six years only servicing it once really.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Here's an update on this situation (I'm the OP):

I talked to the mechanic yesterday and he has been unable to source the parts necessary to take me back to a points and condensor ignition system. So the only option available to me, he said, is to install another electronic ignition kit (though not his preferred solution). He quoted the kit at $375 plus a few more parts rounding out to $425 in parts alone. Adding a few hours of labor for his troubleshooting and installation of the new kit the bill will be over $700 . . . . OUCH!! That's 20% of what I paid for the boat a couple of months ago.

Making matters worse, I'm convinced now that I created the problem by leaving the key ignition switch in the "on" position for a period of time that I was troubleshooting another problem. In a car that wouldn't be a problem nor would it have been in a boat with a conventional ignition I don't believe. Live and learn I guess.

I hope buying this old boat doesn't become one of the worst decisions I've ever made.

It still would be a problem if the points were closed when the ignition was left on. You would have burnt up the points.

Not sure if the conversion was an HEI dizzy, or a Pertronix type module. If it was the latter, all that would need to be done is to remove the module mounting plate and reinstall points/condenser. Would also have to reinstall the ballast resistor if so equipped.

I think a lot of the problems with Pertronix was their initial module. At least that was the main complaint I heard. It sounded like they fixed any issues with the Pertronix II/III I ran the III in a '68 GTO. I thought it was the cat's meow..... Set it and forget it. Even had a rev limiter that you could bench set. Friend of mine put a module in his ski boat and really likes it. Having a hotter coil works well with the modules and I believe are mandatory. I used an Accel Super Coil. idk, I see it as progress. Just like when cars went to HEI. And the ignition systems we have today with a coil per cylinder and let's not forget fuel injection which has been around for quite awhile. They even had limited injection systems in the 50's. Nothing wrong with points, but there's a reason we don't use them today. There's much better systems out there. Just like carbs went by the wayside. Just putting my .02 out there...

 

[BigManDan72]

I lot of time has passed since I started this post and even since the last update, and the situation changed a bit along the way. The story in brief:

* I roasted the electronic ignition cuz I'm a moron.
* The mechanic talked me into going with standard points and condensor because he hates electronic ignition
* The mechanic couldn't find a the parts for this very old boat and went back to suggesting an electronic ignition
* The mechanic couldn't find an electronic ignition that would work on my boat
* The mechanic talked me back into points and condensor and found the parts he needed at a nearby marina
* I picked my boat up yesterday and, nearly $800 later, my boat runs.

I gotta stop being a moron or this old boat will cost me a fortune.

 

[gm280]

I lot of time has passed since I started this post and even since the last update, and the situation changed a bit along the way. The story in brief:

* I roasted the electronic ignition cuz I'm a moron.
* The mechanic talked me into going with standard points and condensor because he hates electronic ignition
* The mechanic couldn't find a the parts for this very old boat and went back to suggesting an electronic ignition
* The mechanic couldn't find an electronic ignition that would work on my boat
* The mechanic talked me back into points and condensor and found the parts he needed at a nearby marina
* I picked my boat up yesterday and, nearly $800 later, my boat runs.

I gotta stop being a moron or this old boat will cost me a fortune.

That IS a very sad story. You need to start reading and fixing your own boating issue. It doesn't cost that much to buy a original shop specific shop manual and read it. Then you save a ton of money AND learn how to do those things for yourself. :thumb:

 

[DeepBlue2010]

There is a big difference between making a living and thievery. Every business needs to make profit otherwise they have no business being in business; but charging $800 for this job, this is outrageous. The parts price list by itself is an act of fraud.