Electronic Voting

[i386]

I thought I'd bring this up BEFORE the election.

It's my understanding that electronic voting machines provide no mechanism for a proper audit or recount. The voter has no way of knowing that what he/she cast is what really counted. Does this concern you?

 

[rolmops]

Re: Electronic Voting

Of course it does.The saying is that it does not matter what you vote.It matters who counts the votes.
When during the last elections in Ohio electric voting machines were introduced,the owner of the company that made the machines promised Bush to deliver the votes to him.
These machines have the potential of rigging an election and since there is no way to check a paper trail there is no recourse.Why ,even a paper trail becomes questionable because it is printed by a machine that might be rigged
Or in a very close election there could be just a few machines that crash(as computers often do).The result would be that dependent on which way the election goes,the loosing side would scream bloody murder,again with no recourse

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: Electronic Voting

I was listening to a report about this on the radio. If I recall correctly the newer devices are supposed to show to the voter a paper representation of their ballot via thermal paper for their approval. If the paper matches how they voted they hit the "Accept" button or whatever. The thermal paper is to be the ballot counted if a recount is required. Trouble is most folks did not check, according to the research.

My state uses paper ballots you mark with black felt tip pins to complete a line pointing to your candidate of choice. The machine reads the ballot using some sort of photo eye device. I spoiled a ballot one time by accidentally draggng the pen tip across the ballot. Machine refused the ballot and I had to be issued another one. The paper ballots are stored inside the machine. The only draw back to this, according to the report, was that this form of ballot may not be a good choice for handicapped people. I've not seen any problems with it at my polling station.

There have been some serious security issues raised about electronic balloting. I would not put it past a fringe element of EITHER party to try an manipulate the machines to their advatage. There seems to be an overabundance of people who feel "The End Justifies The Means"....


It was mentioned in the report that the machines sold by Diebold cost approx $100.00 to manufacture. They sell for about $2700.00. The federal government helps to pay the cost of these units as outlined in the "Help AMerica Vote" act of 2002. (HR3295) The bill was sponsered by Congressmen Steny Hoyer and Bob Ney. The language in the bill specifing the type of equipment to be used strongly favors hardware made by Diebold, a company that made financial contributions to Bob Ney's election.

Here is a line to a Rolling Stone article written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. regarding Diebold and some questions concerning ballot security.

(Yeah, I know....a rag mag advocating Mary Jane for all and a silver spooned politician that has a driving problem but a least skim the article before taking the easy pot shots....d )

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...dy_jr__will_the_next_election_be_hacked/print

 

[PW2]

Re: Electronic Voting

Just by judging campain ads, if you assume that these folks would go to virtually any length to win and retain power, it's hard to imagine a line over which they won't cross.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Electronic Voting

I'm wanting to vote via internet/web page from home. Now there's a whole new set of problems, but wouldn't it be convenient.

 

[i386]

Re: Electronic Voting

I don't have HBO, but I found Hacking Democracy on Google Video. Scary stuff.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Electronic Voting

I think we should all vote with text messages like american idol. I have two cell phones so I can vote twice. 8)

 

[alden135]

Re: Electronic Voting

Can citizens still vote?

 

[fireman57]

Re: Electronic Voting

If you want to take the fraud out of voting then you need to take a year and have everyone re-register. When they do this they will be required to give a thumbprint which can be stored digitally and used as ID in the next election. The cost of upgrading voting equipment for the next election would be high but it needs to be upgraded anyway. With the thumbprint you don't have to give out any personal info when you go to vote. Just touch the screen and start voting. The recounts can be handled very easily this way and any double voting will be tossed out automatically. Even if it takes four years for all the precincts to upgrade the equipment all the thumbprints would be available as they get on line.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Electronic Voting

If you want to take the fraud out of voting then you need to take a year and have everyone re-register. When they do this they will be required to give a thumbprint which can be stored digitally and used as ID in the next election. The cost of upgrading voting equipment for the next election would be high but it needs to be upgraded anyway. With the thumbprint you don't have to give out any personal info when you go to vote. Just touch the screen and start voting. The recounts can be handled very easily this way and any double voting will be tossed out automatically. Even if it takes four years for all the precincts to upgrade the equipment all the thumbprints would be available as they get on line.

What? And take all the fun out of it? I'll bet you would also want college FB to have a playoff and take the fun and controversy out of that as well.

 

[fireman57]

Re: Electronic Voting

You're right BB. If we took the controversy out this forum would shrivel up and die! Let's start with the best team did not win the World Series, too many teams in the NHL playoffs (don't follow hockey anyway), and professional boxing isn't fixed.

 

[CJY]

Re: Electronic Voting

Yes, I am worried. I am equally worried about the electronics being programmed by a company located in Venezuela. The home of Hugo Chavez.

Things that make you go hmmmm.

http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200604051541

 

[fireman57]

Re: Electronic Voting

That is one of the problems we face. Having our country's "secrets" handled by another country. There is probably no way for just a U.S. company to do it since they are all global. They might have half the programming done in India the other half somewhere else. Then it all goes to another part of the company somewhere else.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Electronic Voting

I never liked the idea of electronic voting. Fear of the unknown. I hope it doesnt match the problems I've had with online banking.

 

[CJY]

Re: Electronic Voting

Screwed up on-line banking is great...so long it gets screwed up in your favor.8)

I never had an error in my favor, nor have I ever been able to explain myself out of their error either.

It has to be better than Taco Bell. That is nothing but a crap shoot. Sometimes you get what you want and like it, sometimes you don't, but you eat it anyway.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Electronic Voting

Quote:
It has to be better than Taco Bell. That is nothing but a crap shoot. Sometimes you get what you want and like it, sometimes you don't, but you eat it anyway.

So true!8)

 

[PW2]

Re: Electronic Voting

Interesting. I've never had problem one with online banking.

And most states run online lotteries reasonably error free.

I can't imagine why they should have such a big problem with voting machines, unless somewhere someone stands to gain something.

 

[CJY]

Re: Electronic Voting

"unless somewhere someone stands to gain something"

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm.

It will be top story tomorrow if things are screwed up.

 

[crunch]

Re: Electronic Voting

It will be top story tomorrow if things are screwed up.

It will be top story tomorrow no mater what, the looser will blame it on the new voting machines.

(That will be the Democrats of course). 8)

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Electronic Voting

The whole e-voting thing presents some interesting data problems.. It needs to be auditable yet the record of the vote cannot be traceable to the owner of the vote.

What I would suggest is a machine that tracks the vote with a primary key that is attached to a bar code. That bar code is presneted as a receipt to the voter.

within the machine, a separate copy of the barcode is printed as an audit record.

The reciept given to the voter can be scanned at a polling place kiosk that would allow them to validate what their results should be. they could even check it at home..

As far as the data would go, their would be a copy of the data on the voting machine, stored encrypted with appropriate key controls to eliminate tampering. This data would be uploaded into a central database for reporting and aggregation with other polling stations.

If there are questions, the data of record would be the voting machine copy with records only accessible by the bar code receipts.

Just some thoughts. it would be an interesting problem to solve..