Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

[ap4000]

I would very much appreciate help with a Force 125HP that comes out of water when I revrese.<br />I have already rebuilt the pump for the tilt/trim and I assume it was done right. The person that built it for me says that what hold the engine down when reversing is not the pump but there is an impact releif valve inside the tilt cylinder which might be faulty and causing the problem.<br /><br />Needless to say I would hate to go trough the effort and expense of replacing the cylinder finding afterwords that the pump was rebuilt incrrectly.<br /><br />So the question is does anyone know what holds the engine down when reversing? Is it the pump or a valve inside the tilt cylinder?<br /><br />Thanks,

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Both, ask the rebuilder if he replaced the tiny seals inside the pilot check valves.

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Hi Clanton,<br /><br />Ofcource, the answer can never be easy. I will get that info from them. If the answer is yes to replacing the seals would I assume that I need to buy/fix the tilt cylinder? Is it fixable?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Andre

 

[skier]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Depending on what trim/tilt model you have. Some have a knob that if turned one way the motor would do what yours does and if the knob is turned the other way it stays down. Check all around the system to see if you have such a knob or screw.<br /><br />Craig

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

If the valve has an allen head screw instead of snap rings, easy to replace the seal, mercury pn 820719 valve seat. There are two valves one holds the engine down, the other holds the engine up, no manual release valve on this system. I would check the seals before I took the cylinder apart, the seal replacement is not a service manual fix.There is photo of valve on board, try a search.

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

This is amazing information. I wish I had found you guys before spending $180 on rebuilding the valve body for what seems like nothing.<br /><br />Craig, I don't beleive my tilt/trim has what you are refering to but I will double check.<br /><br />Clanton, what I have is actually a snap ring, I had taken the snap ring out when I took the whole system apart but was unable to take the value out. Any suggestions? Also, What is the best way to relief the system from the pressure while doing this without unscrewing the hydraulic lines again and breaking the threads again. Would resting the engine on a block and bringing the system all the way down do it?<br /><br />Would the part number be the same for the seal for the snap ring models?<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Andre

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Try this remove 1 snapring, run tilt up or down, and try to blow valve out with the hyd pressure, DO NOT STAND IN FRONT OF VALVE, if the valve will not come out remove the snapring for the other valve and try it. Report back after you have valve out. If the hyd pressure will not blow the valve out, you have to remove one of the lines and blow out with air pressure. Once you get one vlave out you can reach inside pump body remove plastic shuttle valve, then using a wood dowel push the other valve out.

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Clanton,<br /><br />OK, I have the valves out. They each have 2 O rings and, as you mentioned, there is a piece of plastic in between them.<br /><br />Anything you would like me to check?

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Remove the 2 o-rings, the valve body is alumnium with a steel cap on the end, the steel cap must be removed. Heat valve in boiling water the alumnium will expand and you can pry the cap off. I use screwdriver with rag over tip, donot mar valve body. Inside is a small spring and needle, looks like carb float needle, the seal goes on the end of needle. Remove remains of old seal install new seal the inside hole in seal has a bevel the bevel goes toward the needle.

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

How did you get the valves out, and is the 3 valve there, a plastic valve, between the 2 pilot valve.

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

I have three pieces so from where I opened the snapping. I got a valve out just like you said by running tilt up. The other one I had to push out. There is a piece that was in the middle made of plastic. Is this the third valve that you are refering to?<br /><br />I will do the boiling tonight to take the valves apart. Would the part number for the seal be the one that you posted earlier for the hex models?

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

I have the seals out. It was not easy. I have scrtches on valve. I think I will have to ti file it down to make it fit again.<br /><br />The seals look like they are in good shape. I am suspecting they changed them when they rebuilt the thing. Anyway, since I have it open needless to say I will replace them. Please confirm part number if you have it so that I can order them. <br /><br />I had taken out the tilt cylinder too, since the whole system is open and I saw the seals in good shape I would like to play it safe. I opened the tilt cylender, if you have any info on how to make sure that is functioning the way it should please let me know so that I can do the whole thing in one go and insure that this will work when I put it back together.<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Andre

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Correction. The piece that was between the valves is not plastic. It is metal with an O ring in the middle and two needles at the ends. I am not sure what you meant earlier by shuttle valve but the purpose of this piece as far as I can tell is to push the needles of the valves in with its own needles to open the valves.

 

[Bry21317]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

Andre,<br />This metal (Mine was also metal) piece that was in the middle with the O ring in the middle of it, looks to have a point on either end of it, this is the shuttle valve that Clanton is talking about. The part number should be the same that Clanton gave you, I would think. He walked me through doing this same thing a few months back and it worked for me, finally.<br /><br />The trim is a real pain in you know what on this engine. lol<br /><br />Hope you get it all up and running.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Bryan Cox

 

[clanton]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

The later model shuttle valve may be metal, shuttle valve, because it moves back and forth, just like a shuttle bus. Check cylinder by tilting engine to full tilt position, with t/t motor, block engine, cap hyd line to lower end of cylinder, remove block. If no leaks, and engine comes down, fluid is bypassing piston seal, or inpack check valve in cylinder.

 

[ap4000]

Re: Engine comes out of water on 1988 Force 125

I have changed the cylindr O ringpiston seal, O ring on the tilt cylinder. The last thing is the impact valve. The dealer says that I cannot get it by itself and I have to buy the whole tilt cylinder at a cost of $550.00. I don't even know if the whole engine is worth that much. Would you have any source for the impact valve or a cheap tilt cylinder?<br /><br />Thanks