Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

[jasonabbott]

I am new posting on here, however I have used this site many times in the past year to educate myself on issues that have come up on my Mercruiser. I value the experience and knowledge available here!

I have a 1990 Celebrity BR180 with a Mercruiser inline 4, I/O that recently left me stranded on the lake due to a failure on the coupler. I was able to diagnose this failure thanks to this site. Anyway, my boat has been at the repair shop for 2 weeks now. It was promised to be finished yesterday 04/16, and I got a phone call at 3:00pm to tell me the rear main seal was shot and needed replacing. Although skeptical, I could not say put the motor back in without replacing that seal because it would have plagued my mind every time I went on the water. I gave the ok to go ahead and replace the seal. An hour later I get another call from the shop saying they ordered the wrong seal because my motor is not a 1990 like I told them. (When ordering parts, even I know it is a good idea to identify the motor that part is going on.)

I keep getting the run around on parts availability due to "the year of my engine". According to the front desk lady, and the mechanic doing the repair (she put him on the phone when she realized I wasn't accepting what she was trying to tell me) my engine is a 1985 that replaced the original. They insist that the Mercruiser inline 4 manufactured in 1985 required a "special" main seal that was specific to that year ONLY Also went as far as to provide me with a Merc part number of 26-817622 (don't bother looking it up because Mercury Marine already verified it is not a valid part number, and provided me with 26-814622 as the correct number) When I asked the mechanic about getting the serial number on the engine to verify with Mercury Marine, he said it was missing from my engine (have no idea where that little tag I looked at last year near the starter would have disappeared to - or even how it would have worked its way loose, but anyway....)

A little digging in my shop turned up the s/n I had written down last year for something I was researching and now Mercury Marine is closed. The charts I have looked at online are really confusing to me for identifying my engine, and I was wondering if anyone on here could assist with identifying it. The s/n I have is 0C608938 on the engine and 0C747676 on the sterndrive.

Sorry for such a long post - I guess I needed to vent some frustration to someone since the wife can't understand any of it!

 

[bomar76]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Will be interesting to see if the engine that your boat had in it when it was taken there is the same engine in it when you pick it up.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Well, I took a drive up to the shop where my boat is after my original post. I told the lady at the front desk that I was there to retrieve some numbers from my motor. She went out into the garage, and said the mechanic who is working on my motor would be there in a few minutes. He came out front and told me to come on back. After a bunch of BS from him insisting the motor had no serial number, I asked to see my motor. Upon inspection, the 2 rivets that hold the serial tag on were intact, and sure enough the tag was missing. I told the mechanic I know damn well it was on there when the boat was dropped off to his shop because I had to get the number from it to research the coupler myself. I told him I had the serial number from writting it down the day before the boat was dropped off to him. The look on his face was absolutely priceless!!!! A walk out to his boat yard and a quick inspection by him inside the bilge of my boat did not turn up the missing tag, so he speculated that he must have knocked it off when the motor was taken out and it must be in the yard somewhere and I was more than welcome to look around. Well, I looked around the yard and could not locate that darn tag. A jump inside the boat myself, and a close inspection revealed the following picture. Hmmmmm I wonder how that damn tag got in there in such a neat placement. The mechanic now says my motor is a 1987....how does it go from a 1985 with a "special" unique to that year main seal to now being a 1987???????

This place is obviously crooked, and I seriously must consider what action to take from here. Hell, this shop has now depreciated the value of my motor at a minimum since the serial number tag has been removed......accident or not, they should compensate me somehow I would think - not to mention, they have caused me some serious pain and suffering!

In case it isn't obvious, the tag is sitting next to the exhaust at the transome.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Repairs are still not complete.

I called Mercury Marine today and asked if they could give me any information on the engine in my boat using the serial number I have. 30 minutes later I received a fax from them with the original purchaser blocked out, and all the other information specific to my boat matching. Therefore, this repair shop's story has been completely sunk!

I am considering taking legal action in Small Claims Court against this business now for the removal of the serial number from my engine (property damage), breach of contract, fraud, loss of use (can anybody think of something else I might argue here?) I may afford them the opportunity to make it right and accept the $450 already paid as "paid in full" for the work completed. They contacted me today and told me that my final bill will be an additional $400, for a grand total of $850 for a coupler and rear main seal replacement.

What would be a fair depreciation on the value of my engine (and boat I guess since it is in fact the original shown by MM) for the serial number being removed? I know it would make it a questionable engine now since I would not be able to prove that is the tag that goes to that engine. I was thinking $400 depreciation - does that seem appropriate or am I too far out there?

 

[bomar76]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

You are asking legal questions on a boat forum.
I usually don't ask my lawyer for advice on boat repairs.
My honest advice is to spend a few buck at your lawyers office.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

You are asking legal questions on a boat forum.
I usually don't ask my lawyer for advice on boat repairs.
My honest advice is to spend a few buck at your lawyers office.

Wow, I certainly didn't think that would be construed as asking for legal advice and I wasn?t looking for any?.but thanks for the honest advice on spending money on a lawyer on a boat forum though!

Sarcasm was intended by ?can anybody think of something else I might argue here?? and a smiley might have served to show such. I figured the sarcasm would show in all that I listed though?.

My intended question came at the end, and was directed at an opinion on how much the value would drop on an engine with the serial number removed/missing since I truly don?t have or know of a way to determine it. NADA values the engine at $1,225 in the boat.

 

[bomar76]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

My unspoken point was before I conjured up a lot of what if's and how much's......I would ask someone that actually is an expert in the law if you even have a case.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

The lawyer I spoke with today indicated that he believed I should pursue a claim "on my own" for damages as that is the Magistrate Court's preference according to him. He said I would need to determine a value for the loss on the removal of the s/n, and I have no clue how to determine that. A boat forum full of knowledge on these engines seemed to be somewhere to ask.

 

[boat127]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

i woulndt even bother filing a case. its only a serial number you can easily stick it back on. i wouldn't think you would get that far in court

 

[havasuboatman]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Did Mercruiser (Mercury Marine) actually tell you your engine was a 1990? I imagine they did not, just that it is the motor that came with your model year 1990 boat.
There is a reason you use engine serial numbers when ordering parts for engines in boats and not the model year. They are often NOT the same.
Mercruiser service manual # 13 is for GM 4 cylinder motors from 1990-1997.
Serial numbers covered in that manual are:

MCM 3.0 OC856451 (and above)
MCM 3.0L / MCM 3.0LX OC868143 (and above)

Your engine is not included.

The shop you took the boat to is not one I would return to, the ordering mistake was theirs, not yours. The mechanic obviously couldn't find the engine serial number on the tag, and instead of doing the right thing and using the casting numbers on the block and or visual identification of the part, he took your word for it, and he used the boat year and caught burned for it.
That tag coming off doesn't effect the motors value even a little. Hell, the engine serial number should be on the spark arresster cover.
You haven't got a case. Hell, you'd be laughed out of court.
I'll tell you this much; $850 for a coupler and rear main replacement is a very reasonable price. At my shop you would have paid closer to $1500.
You are obviously trying get over on this shop. And why, because they are one day over their estimated time?
Here's what it boils down to: You approved the work, you signed the work order, which, by the way was a lien in lieu of payment contract, and you are going to pay this shop or they will sell your boat.
You are getting an awesome price for the work, parts delays are a fact of life, you havent been wronged, and they haven't done a single thing dishonest or damaging.
Ask them to re-attach the tag and pay your friggin' bill.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Did Mercruiser (Mercury Marine) actually tell you your engine was a 1990? I imagine they did not, just that it is the motor that came with your model year 1990 boat.
There is a reason you use engine serial numbers when ordering parts for engines in boats and not the model year. They are often NOT the same.
Mercruiser service manual # 13 is for GM 4 cylinder motors from 1990-1997.
Serial numbers covered in that manual are:

MCM 3.0 OC856451 (and above)
MCM 3.0L / MCM 3.0LX OC868143 (and above)

Your engine is not included.

The shop you took the boat to is not one I would return to, the ordering mistake was theirs, not yours. The mechanic obviously couldn't find the engine serial number on the tag, and instead of doing the right thing and using the casting numbers on the block and or visual identification of the part, he took your word for it, and he used the boat year and caught burned for it.
That tag coming off doesn't effect the motors value even a little. Hell, the engine serial number should be on the spark arresster cover.
You haven't got a case. Hell, you'd be laughed out of court.
I'll tell you this much; $850 for a coupler and rear main replacement is a very reasonable price. At my shop you would have paid closer to $1500.
You are obviously trying get over on this shop. And why, because they are one day over their estimated time?
Here's what it boils down to: You approved the work, you signed the work order, which, by the way was a lien in lieu of payment contract, and you are going to pay this shop or they will sell your boat.
You are getting an awesome price for the work, parts delays are a fact of life, you havent been wronged, and they haven't done a single thing dishonest or damaging.
Ask them to re-attach the tag and pay your friggin' bill.

Still not complete with repairs on my boat.

Mercury Marine?s report shows it was crated in 1989, and installed in my 1990 boat by HIN reference. Therefore, it is in fact a 1989 (original) engine in a 1990 boat. Information I provided to this shop was that the boat is a 1990. So, my 1990 boat has a 1985 engine in it that replaced the original, and then it has a 1987 engine in it that replaced the original. None of which is true.

Even I know about using the serial number for ordering parts for the reason you indicate, and would EXPECT a boat repair shop would as well. I have no idea what you were trying to demonstrate to me by placing the GM Service Manual #13 information on here. I already knew my s/n wasn?t within those ranges, but thanks. Hell, when he told me my engine did not have a serial number on it, I asked him about using the casting numbers and he insisted those records would be archived and irretrievable while insisting he knew my engine was a 1985 that replaced the original?.went on to say it is a 1985 engine requiring a ?special? ?unique? to that year seal that had to be ordered direct from MM. Even provided me with a part number that did not even exist as verified by MM?.is it coincidence that the seal needed was different by 1 number being changed? I doubt that since I spoke with their parts supplier on Friday, and they informed me that they had the seal I needed by the correct part number in stock. Bottom line, I would have accepted being told that they were running behind on my job, other jobs, or whatever the ?HONEST? story was. Instead, I?ve been told so much garbage, and been given such a run around over this whole thing. I personally do not believe it to be an accident the engine s/n tag got to the location where I found it. When I showed up at that shop right after opening on Saturday morning and said I was there to retrieve some numbers from my engine, I truly believe the man removed it before he came to the front office to take me back to see it. He had to remove it because it was obvious I was calling BS on all the BS. His reaction when I told him it was there when the boat was dropped off because I looked at it the day before gave him away. When I pulled the index card from my pocket that I had written the s/n on, his chin may as well have been laying on the floor.

Believe me; I didn?t need to be told not to return to this shop! No question it will never happen again. Thanks for the advice and your opinion of this whole thing being me trying to get over on this repair shop?.sorry, but you got that all wrong. I know it is hard to understand what I have been through by reading about it, and it is by far not minimal stuff to me. You say this shop has not wronged me or done a single thing dishonest or damaging and I cannot understand that position unless the shop you work at is into these type of practices also. A repair shop that goes to such great lengths to convince me that an outright lie is the truth and is the basis of an obligation not being met is completely dishonest in my opinion. I?ll take your word for it that there is no affect on the value of the engine for the s/n tag no longer being attached to it. I don?t have any experience in the way of buying/selling boats so I have no idea if it would cause someone to question the engine being what I say it is. Oh, and the s/n is not on the spark arrestor so that tag is all I am aware of.

 

[jasonabbott]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Finally.....got her back home today!!!! Seems to run smooth on the hose, but will have to run her on the lake to really see....

 

[btcox123]

Re: Engine ID - Main Seal dilemma

Hi jasonabbott,
Just wanted to know how this ended up, or even if you pursued it further?

The reason I ask, Anyone on this forum given a choice between two identical motors with the only difference being one has OEM S/N affixed and the other being handed to you, missing, or reattached by seller, would clearly buy the unaltered motor. In my opinion no one in their right mind would by a motor without the S/N attached, and this WOULD negatively effect the value of your motor.

Also like to let you know I had a similar situation from a large Chevrolet dealership.
I use shade tree mechanics, or do the work myself now. At least I know I am getting what I pay for.