Engine "kicks".... please help!

jwyler

Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
22
Hi, I have an ancient Evinrude motor that has run well for me over the past year I've had it. The other weekend I ran the motor for a couple of hours straight (much longer than previously) at the end of which it started to occationally, then more frequently, "kick" -- violently jerk, actually jumping slightly on its mount. It sounded like it might even have sped up right as it did this. More throttle meant it happened more frequently, anywhere from every 10 seconds to every minute or two. I thought maybe this was knock (not really having first-hand experience with the phenomenon), so I filled the tank with higher octane fuel and tried again the next weekend... the kicking continued to happen frequently. I pulled the plugs to replace, thinking maybe only one of the cylinders was firing or something, but they didn't look too bad (though I could be wrong).<br /><br />What to try next? Thanks for any tips or explanation, --Jon
 

Goodoleboy

Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
555
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Sounds as if you may have a clutch dog slipping in the lower unit. Is it quite a hard (thunk) as if you may have hit something in the water. As you give more throttle does it get worse. Does it do it at all while ideling? Mid throttle mabey?<br /><br />No need to use anything above 87 octane fuel. Could even do damage to your engine with higher octane.<br /><br />Ancient motor dosent mean mutch.<br /><br />You need to post your model number.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

umblecumbuz

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Sep 25, 2004
Messages
1,062
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Hi Jon,<br />
You said:...then more frequently, "kick" -- violently jerk, actually jumping slightly on its mount. It sounded like it might even have sped up right as it did this. More throttle meant it happened more frequently,...
I reckon Goodolboy's hit it right. Sounds just like a clutch dog showing signs of wear. If so, your motor's fine, but you need to think about taking the lower unit apart.
 

lark2004

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Jul 12, 2004
Messages
1,080
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

the cause off this is usually from someone trying to ease the engine into gear. The edges of the clutch dog (and the gears) get chipped and worn. This results in the dog jumping out of gear. Hence the violent jerking you feel.<br /><br />When you put it into gear, you should do it quickly, not jam it in for all it's worth, but firmly.<br /><br />What model# is this engine?
 

jwyler

Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
22
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

I'll check on the model number. But it's a 1957 Evinrude 15HP. In the meantime...<br /><br />I did have a problem several months back in which I removed the gear shift lever and put it back slightly off position on the rod it turns, which kept it out of gear more frequently than in gear. You are right that I have not experienced the "kick" problem in neutral/idle.<br /><br />How do I replace the clutch dog? I'm mechanically-inclined, but am not specifically experience with boat motors, so I this something I could do myself? If so, I'd appreciate any advice on how-to. Thanks, --Jon
 

Goodoleboy

Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
555
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Hi Jon!<br /><br />If it were me I wouldnt try tareing into the lower unit without a manual.<br /><br />Mite be able to check one out at your local libray. Or order on from kencook.com<br /><br /><br />Good luck!
 

imkirok

Recruit
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Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Had the same problem with a '56 10hp Johnson. It was the clutch dog. Replacement was expensive (pushing $100), so the boat mechanic told us to just remove the dog and turn it around backwards. It was a pretty simple procedure to take off the lower gear case and flip it around. It's worked great ever since, and didn't cost us a dime. Check the speghetti gasket in the lower unit while you're in there.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
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Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)<br />(J. Reeves)<br /> <br />This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".<br /> <br />Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.<br /> <br />When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.<br /><br />The lobes of the dog and gears are percisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are percisely machined with sharp angles!<br /> <br />Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those percisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.<br /> <br />Some boaters have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those percisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
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Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Joe,<br /><br />Very good description. For the beginners out there, though, perhaps a reminder about engine speed when shifting is in order.<br /><br />Shifting should always take place at low RPM's. This gets forgotten at times by new boaters. The sequence is to slow the engine to idling speed before shifting. Then, a firm, quick shift will get you in gear nice and easily, ready to move on out.<br /><br />Oh, yeah, that tilt lock on your outboard. It's really a good idea to engage it before going in reverse. However, it's also a good idea to disengage it when you're not, since that will enable the motor to slide over many obstructions.<br /><br />I've found, though, that I can go in reverse at idle speed or just above without locking the tilt lock.
 

jwyler

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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
22
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Thanks for all the help so far!<br /><br />So I've pulled the lower unit, opened and drained the case, dug into the impeller unit as well, and am stuck with a problem:<br /><br />The cotter pin on the propeller is seized. Is there any alternative other than drilling it out? Can I do that with a hand drill? How do I drill along the correct line?<br /><br />Also, the lube in the case resembles mud and smells like a skunk. Does that mean anything other than that it might be 50 years old?<br /><br />Thanks again, --Jon
 

Goodoleboy

Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
555
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Hi Jon!<br /><br />Its just old oil mixed with uh bit of water. Ya it stinks sumpin awfull.<br /><br />That pin is gona be real hard to drill out. Just because its split...You will break ten thousand drill bits tryin at.<br /><br />Get uh punch that your sure and for certain damn thats smaller than the pin...and hammer thu heck out ov it..If your punch breaks....get uh notherin just like it.<br /><br />Drive at little sum%****ich....Out!<br /><br />Good luck!
 

jwyler

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Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
22
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

That sounds fairly impossible. It's all so rusted and corroded that I could barely even find the pin without cutting right through it. And with the aspect ratio of the hole, I'm guessing I'll break a thousand punches as well.<br /><br />What about splitting the cone with a hacksaw and then replacing it?
 

Goodoleboy

Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
555
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Jon....what ever trips your trigger...do it. Its your motor hoss!<br /><br />Try some heat mabey...butane torch.....dont get frustrated and mad...! dang it.... you can do it.<br /><br /><br />Good luck!
 

snesbitt

Recruit
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Aug 5, 2005
Messages
2
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Goodday - I have a 1988 Champion Bass boat with an 1988 Evinrude 120 hp engine. My engine seems to mimic the symptoms discussed here. As you throttle up to 2700 RPM the engine starts to buck and kick. Of course the boat will not go on plane. I tried multiple times, this is after cruising out past the bouys -- 10 minutes of travel time. We traveled at about 6 mph for a while and then shut down to fish. After a couple hours we were returning to port and I attempted to go past 2700 RPM and there was a buck but the boat dropped onto plane and the engine ran fine for about 5 minutes then it started bucking again. I dropped it off plane and limped home. The boat is slipped and the mechanic will attempt to test drive it this week. I want to be a smart consumer. <br /><br />1) Do these symptoms sound like this is my problem?<br /><br />2) What should it cost to repair?<br /><br />3) I have mid-range mechanical skills -- can I repair without specialized equipment and what time frame would I need?<br /><br />thanks
 

Goodoleboy

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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
555
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Hi SB..welcome to the forum.<br /><br />Yes it sounds as if you may have the same problem.<br /><br />If I may offer some frindley advise. Its best in the future if you wish to ask a question that you post your question in your own new thread.<br /><br />Things can become confused trying to answer questions for two diffrent motors.<br /><br />Good Luck!
 

Scotty's Fujiboat

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
93
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Get some PB blaster & spray the cotter pin, let it soak for a while then try the punch. That stuff works well.
 

Hunky Dory

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 20, 2003
Messages
102
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

jwyler, you might try tightening the prop nut ever so slightly to relieve the strain on the cotter pin, then punch it out...<br /><br />Although it doesn't sound like you got into the case a minute too soon, won't a slipping prop hub create the the same symptoms? And still do it after rebuilding the gear case?
 

jwyler

Cadet
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
22
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Got the sucker out, finally! Ended up with a combination of drilling and punching, went through 1/3 box of nails as punches.<br /><br />The clutch dog is clearly worn, and on both sides. Does that mean someone probably flipped it around already in the past?<br /><br />Next challenge: where to find a new one without spending a fortune. The motor shop near me didn't have one due to the age of the part.<br /><br />And not to let this thread get out of control, but in the process of opening this all up, I've removed the impeller. How do I judge if I need to replace just the impeller, or get a full impeller kit? I was able to clean up the plate pretty well.<br /><br />Hunky, I doubt that it's the prop slipping, since the kicking behavior was so sporadic.<br /><br />--Jon
 

itstippy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2003
Messages
548
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Really look over the faces of the forward and reverse gears. Obviously if the dog lobes are worn the gearfaces need inspecting. If you do a search under "source for parts" you will find links to various places that have acres of outboards they're salvaging. "Twin City Outboards" is one I see mentioned a lot. Someone here will provide a part # for the clutch dog in a '57 15HP. You might need to start a new post called "Part # '57 15HP clutch dog". If the gears are worn too you should look for an entire gearset from an outboard that someone blew the powerhead on.<br />If the waterpump housing looks good then it is good. Just replace the impeller.<br /><br />Goodoleboy you crack me up. You have a very colorful way of dispensing (good) advice. I never get tired of reading this forum. A post from some Brit asking about "petrol fumes in the bonnet" might get a reply from you telling him that he "sure and for certain damn" better not light a cigarette while he examines the problem.
 

tbeaun

Seaman
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
59
Re: Engine "kicks".... please help!

Originally posted by itstippy:<br /> <br />Goodoleboy you crack me up. You have a very colorful way of dispensing (good) advice. I never get tired of reading this forum. A post from some Brit asking about "petrol fumes in the bonnet" might get a reply from you telling him that he "sure and for certain damn" better not light a cigarette while he examines the problem.
Writes like he was kicked off a Kentucky mountain & put down new roots in Iowa
 
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