Engine repair ethics question

[Nos4r2]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

I think there might be a new thread in this in stupid human tricks.

 

[Lion hunter]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

300 is cheap. Take time off of work and repair it yourself then calculate what you spent to fix it. Mechanics have a job an they expect to be paid for it. Most have shop rate posted on the door so you know what to expect to pay. Would you have rather had him tear it apart diagnose and put it back together without fixing it? (2 hours labor). <br />Thats at least $125 without parts, add another<br />$50-60 for parts and another hour to fix and your right around $300. Every time I tear a lower unit apart and replace an impeller it takes me at least 3 hours + parts. Quit whining, pay the bill and get your motor back. Then learn how to repair yourself.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

a clymer or seloc manual is only 25 bucks!

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

Originally posted by rangerb:<br /> ....<br />I told the mechanic I to put a new seal it it. He took the engine, did not take my name, number or and info on the engine. I told him that I would call him after a had a chance to look at the motor to discuss what it needed. I called at least 6 times and got no one. Finally I got his wife who told me that he was waiting on a part.<br />a couple of weeks later she called again to say that the engine was fixed and the bill was nearly $300. ....

I appreciate what the pro mechanics have said in this thread and agree there should have been a better understanding in the first place. It's clear that the guy (at least his story) told the mechanic to replace a seal, but I don't see where he told him to do an overhaul. It in re-reading the original post (excerpt above), I really think the customer made a good faith effort to communicate with the mechanic to find out what was wrong and how much it would cost. The guy called several times. The mechanic knew he was calling - if he didn't because he doesn't have a person or MACHINE to answer the phone, he's just plain a bad businessman and/or stupid and that has consequences. <br /><br />We also have to assume that the mechanic could look at this engine and know that it wasn't an expensive engine and therefore a smart and experienced mechanic and businessman would know that it is fairly likely a customer wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on repairs. This is just common sense and just good business. However, (again assuming OP's story is true), it seems this mechanic does not like to communicate with the customers at all, and I feel that at least part of the problem lies in his own mistakes.<br /><br />My gut feeling is that the only fair way out of this is:<br /><br />Best: talk to mechanic and in a cordial way, explain why you're unhappy. To me a good businessman would understand that there is at least some validity to this customers' problem. It is in both's interests to reach a compromise. Customer should pay, at least to some degree, for what's actually been done because he benefits. Mechanic screwed up in the communication department - big time, this is a seriouis mistake, imho - and there should be some consequence to him. He does not deserve the full payment.<br /><br />If satisfactory compromise can't be reached, two options are available to customer: walk away from the engine or pay for it. Of course, walking away could have small claims consequences, but it is an option.<br /><br />In my experience, good mechanics, boat, car, etc., who are also good businessmen do exactly what OP wanted: they assess (and it's certainly fair to bill for assessment) and phone with the damages - either an estimate, or at least to talk about where it coould go.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

I don't see why everyone is arguing over this. <br /><br />1) $300 is NOT a big bill-it equates to a bit over 2 hours labor+parts. That aint unreasonable on an '84 engine that's been stood and has corrosion damage.I suspect he may have UNDERcharged you for labor.<br /><br />2) Would you rather have paid him extra to change the rotted impeller after you got it home and found out it needed doing too-or have him put it together with faulty parts? Had he stopped at the impeller and rung you it still woulda cost you $200 at least, and you'd have thrown $200 at an engine that didn't work.At least now if you sell it for $300 you don't lose. Had he rung you and you'd said don't do any more you'd be $200 down with a a motor in bits.<br /><br />3)You get what you pay for. The engine might not be worth $300 if you try and sell it, but it's sure as he11 worth the extra few bucks for the peace of mind-and the day it gets you home when your main engine's failed and you're up the creek without a paddle it'll be worth $1000's to you.<br /><br />If I had a choice between a $300 kicker engine that pumps water and runs and a $350 engine that pumps water, runs and has a recent reciept for a l/u strip, seal and new pump guess which one I'd buy.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

yep<br /> last year a guy complained about a bill on a 400 hour service, said he wanted to negotiate it as he thought it was high, typical yankee , I said ok and scratched out the total immediatly. then I walked to the time clock, clocked in on the workorder and said lets talk, the billing rate for my time is 75 per hour. <br /> he paid up and left. hopefully to never return. best I remember the bill was less than 300 but some people wish to jew ya down on everything. after 30 years of this I dont jew at all.it is what it is and ya pay what it costs. most people dont realize that a simple propshaft seal leak or some drive shaft seal leaks require a total teardown to replace. and corrosion is always an issue if the motor has ever seen salt water.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

hey rodbolt, <br /><br />lets find a new word please for "talking down the price" instead of "jew", thanks<br /><br />mike

 

[jheron]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

"hey rodbolt,<br /><br />lets find a new word please for "talking down the price" instead of "jew", thanks"<br /><br /> Holy shizit I almost fell off my chair laughing !! lol <br />regards Jon

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

myoutboards<br /> apologies if I offended anyone with my non-pc correctness. my PC filter was offline I guess. make me a suggestion for the alternate term.

 

[dynapac]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

I am not Jewish but I do live north of the Mason-Dixon Line. I sometimes ask if someone could maybe "sharpen their pencil" on a billed amount. <br /><br />Using the term "jewing" is as archaic and socially unacceptable as using "nigger rigging" <br /><br />Whether labor or parts markup is what the market will bear or arbitrarily set it is always prudent to ask for a discount. Worst thing that happens is you are told no and the proprietor has the opportunity to explain to you what was involved in the repair. Buyer typically comes away from the transaction feeling better/confident about it and the amount of money spent. Great way to increase customer loyalty.<br /><br />rangerb - pay the man his money. Unless you told him in no uncertain terms that he was to commence with any work prior too further discussions between you and him. Phone calls don't work. Go see the man and talk to him face to face.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

Seeing as how I do my own work, and never take anything to a shop, I have to agree with those who stated that the bill should be paid for. First thing though is that the mechanic should be talked to directly, not the wife, the dog and anyone else who the mechanic is trying to get to do his dirty work. <br /><br />The mechanic has been unprofessional throughout. He needed to take your info, there needed to be an understanding, in writing, that any additional work must be agreed to before being done. He needs to speak with his customers directly, not have his wife do it because she is a better nag than he is and can get money out of the suckers by nagging it out of them. Of course, this is a two way street. Consumers need to enter these situations with their own best interests in mind. Basically, it if isn't written, it doesn't exist. <br /><br />I would talk with him, see if he will negotiate the price, but figure on paying the whole thing. Suck it up to experience, and then if the motor does not work properly, force him to fix everything because now you have no idea what all he "checked", and could very easily have screwed something else up, hoping for a return visit. Mechanics who decide they will do whatever they want without permission open themselves up to a lot of heartburn. They stand a greater chance of the item boomeranging back because it isn't working right, which is why I don't blame them for not wanting to do work like this. I have done plenty of repair work for others, but I always check it out first, let them know the problem, fix what they want fixed, and make them sign paperwork acknowledging that problems that were not repaired are not my responsibility.<br /><br />Guess that is why I do my own work...

 

[heybaylor]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

thats what ya get north of the line ..<br />however south of the line ....hmm where is that line in Texas????

 

[rangerb]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

thanks for all the repies. 30+ post. Wow! I really touched a nerve. Anyway, I have thought about this and have decided that ultimately it is my responsibilty and I will pay the bill. I should have realized when he did not write a repair order that I was dealing with something less than professional. I do not think he is trying to stiff me. I think he did not pay close enough attention to my concern of spending a lot money for an engine that in my opinion is not worth very much. Had he let me know that more repairs were needed I would have told him to forget it and junk the engine( and I would have gladly paid him for his trouble). To me the engine is not worth $300. That was my whole issue. I did not think he over charged me for the work done. My argument is that he should have called me before doing additional repairs that were not requested no matter how bad they were needed.

 

[aukooze91]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

Seems to me what the mechanic and his wife did is unethical, but, you will probably have to eat the cost and maybe do the deal w/ the credit cards, etc. I know my father had his reverse fixed on a 1999 Mercury 90 (reverse was not "catching"). The mechanic told me to have the whole lower unit "rebuilt" it would probably be $2,000+. Might be you are getting a decenter price if everything works (but, I don't expect you will get a garauntee on the work performed), if he did all that he said he did on the motor. If you pay and pick up motor, get him to run a test there in the shop for you and write out an invoice for you, also.

 

[Laotzu]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

It would have been worse here in the Seattle area. Labor is $110-120 an hour. When I was a teen in Chicago, me and my dad went down to south State street to buy me a pair of "drapes" anyone besides me know what they are? Anyway, we were riding up in the elevator with 3 big black guys. My dad says out of the blue...sure are alot of niggers in this store. My dad wasn't predudiced at all. During the race wars in the 20's, he let a black co-worker stay at our house on the north side until things cooled down so he wouldn't have to brave the streets going to and from work. He meant nothing by the remark.<br /><br />Jerry

 

[JB]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

Call it "bargaining" or "negotiating", rodbolt<br /><br />You might lighten up on our yankee friends, too, you and heybaylor. They can't help it. They have to live up there until they retire.<br /><br />I have gotten attempts to get more for less from folks from all walks of life, all regions, religions and shades. I have also been stiffed by across section.<br /><br />No region or religion has a lock on acting like a jerk.

 

[rabidfish]

Re: Engine repair ethics question

The last time someone asked me to "sharpen my pencil" for repair work... I tossed him out on his ear and raised my labor rate. Ever since my shop has worked overtime 51 weeks a year.<br /><br />I'm thinkin' about raising again, but i frankly dont have the time...