engine stalls out at wot

brett1970

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Jun 9, 2010
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hi.
Just got my '94 keywest 19ft cc with 94 johnson 88spl back from the shop for carbs rebuilt. Motor starts up fine and will run at low rpms fine.When going to wot it runs a short distance then stalls out. I pump the primer bulb a few times and then it will run fine at wot but if you back the throttle off back to trolling speed and then try to go back to wot it stalls back out. Primer bulb seems not to stay as firm as it should.Could this be due to a faulty anti siphon valve on the internal tank? If not where else should i look. Fuel lines look fine and i have a new female fuel connect to the engine.What could be some other things to check?

thanks
 

mamm7215

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Apr 28, 2010
Messages
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Re: engine stalls out at wot

Bulb is not supposed to stay firm while running. Goes soft, not flat though. WOT stall could be fuel restriction or timing. Check filter, pump flow, maybe do link n sinc. If you're unfamiliar with these things, search these forums and get a FACTORY service manual (like I just did). Not Seloc or Clymer. Hope this helps.
 

brett1970

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

just got back from my local boat dealer.They did'nt have any factory manuals, just some generic ones that covered a 100 different models. I will have to order one. In the mean time i bought a new fuel line and bulb but they did'nt have any anti siphon valves in 3/8.
Could this also be a fuel pump problem? How would i check the fuel pump?
Motor runs fine at wot so that makes me think the pump is working fine.All cylinders had great spark and 115 comp on each cylinder.
 

jtexas

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

You said "When going to wot it runs a short distance then stalls out" then later you said "Motor runs fine at wot...." Your definition of "runs fine" is different from mine. ;)

The fuel line must hold pressure; you shouldn't have to pump up the primer bulb more than once during the day. While the motor's running it's just a fat spot in the fuel hose, but you should still feel some pressure there and when you shut it off it should be firm.

Listen for the sound of sucking air and watch closely for fuel leaks at all the junctions while squeezing the bulb. Could be a faulty bulb or quick-disconnect -- those do wear out after awhile.

Also the carb bowl gaskets. If fuel runs out the carb throats, it means you have leaky float valves.

If fuel runs out that hole on the back of the fuel pump when you squeeze the bulb, rebuild the fuel pump.

You don't need an anti-siphon valve -- their only purpose is to keep fuel from siphoning through a faulty carb valve into the boat when the fuel inlet on the motor is lower than the fuel level in the tank. Since an outboard can't be mounted that low, there's no possibility for siphon (it would violate the of the law of gravity). Why boat makers include 'em on outboard hulls is a mystery.
 

brett1970

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

thanks jTexas
To clarify.., as long as i leave it at wot throttle , it runs fine and doesnt stall. as soon as i back off the throttle and try and throttle up it will run for a short time and then go die either to an idle or completely stall. I bought a new fuel line/bulb assembly and plan on trying that first.Still not sure on how to check the fuel pump.
 

brett1970

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

ok

I got home from work today and replaced fuel line and primer bulb. Checked fuel pump and nothing coming out of the weep hole. I did notice that the line going from the fuel pump to the carbs was missing a clamp. I installed a clamp.I started the motor on the flushette and noticed it was a little harder to start than usual. As i ran it i sprayed a little carb cleaner onto the hose that i installed the clamp on to see if could be pulling air from there. When i sprayed the carb cleaner on it the motor would start to idle down and almost stall. This makes me think that it is pulling air from here. Fitting into the pump is tight and there is no fuel coming from where i installed the new clamp.
COuld this be my problem?
 

jtexas

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

at the carb fuel inlet, the pump is pushing gas into the carb bowl, there is no vacuum there, no low pressure area. It's physically impossible for it to suck air in there. If there was enough pressure, you would see gasoline leaking there, but it's not a high pressure fuel system -- they ordinarily only have zip ties (I use cable ties from home depot, never had a leak) instead of clamps anyway.

if there's a connection between your carb cleaner spray and engine behavior, it's at the carb mounting gasket or intake manifold.

one thing I'm not clear on...is the fuel line holding pressure, or is it not?

When the motor starts to stall out, start squeezing the primer bulb.

If the bulb collapses (won't open back up after you squeeze it), it means an obstruction upstream of the bulb, or tank vent closed/blocked, or fautly primer bulb.

If squeezing the primer bulb makes the engine pick back up & run, then your fuel pump is weak and needs rebuilding.

If the line is still pressurized after it quits, or if squeezing the primer bulb has no effect, you need to do compression and spark tests.

Compression should be even across all cylinders (worst within 5 or 7% of the best).

Spark test (not a "spark plug" test): get an inline spark tester (couple bucks at autozone), set the gap for 7/16", clip it to the engine block, attach the plug leads (one at a time) and look for a strong blue spark while cranking. If it can't jump a half-inch gap in the open air without a spark plug, it's not firing in the hole under heat & compression.

Let us know.
 

brett1970

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

concerning the fuel line holding pressure - when the engine stalls and i pump the bulb and it does start to collapse to some degree.It doesnt go completely flat but more "limp" for a lack of a better term.
As for as if the fuel tank is venting, I can blow compressed air into the vent and air blows back out at me.I'm not sure if this is correct or how else to test it.
When i tried to install the new fuel line and bulb last night, i could not get it to prime. I pumped the bulb until i was blue in the face with no result.I tried holding the bulb in a verticle position,up and down, sideways, standing on one foot, standing on my hands, but it would not prime. I put the old fuel line/bulb assembly back on and it primed right up.
The tech that rebuilt my carbs did a compression test (115) on all cylinders and a spark test.I have kind of ruled that out for now. I am thinking it's fuel related but dont know where to go from here.
 

Dirt Crawler

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Jul 25, 2010
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Re: engine stalls out at wot

I just went through a similar situation on my 1993 25 HP Evinrude after rebuilding the carb. Mine would idle great but would act like it was flooding out with any more than half throttle when on the water. I changed the primer bulb and put new plug wires on and now it runs like a champ.
 

jtexas

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

You might not have noticed, the primer bulb has an arrow on it, which is supposed to point in the direction of fuel flow.

The bulb gets firm because the float valves shut when the carb bowls are full of gas. (I know, I'm stating the obvious.) While the motor's running, the bulb is just a fat place in the fuel line, you'll feel some pressure, but it won't be firm, there's gas flowing through it. At idle, fuel pressure might be as low as 1 or 2 PSI and I don't think it ever gets above 12 or 15 even at WOT. When the motor stops, the bowls might or might not be completely full, but they ought to be mostly full, with plenty of gas for the next start. So the bulb might not be as firm as when you started, but it'll be firm enough.

On the tank vent, it's a built-in tank, right? I don't think there should be any restriction in the vent hose -- air has to be able to enter as the engine draws gas out (otherwise the pump has to pull a vacuum, which it can't do), and exit during refueling. Ever have problems with backsplash when filling the tank?

You could isolate any fuel tank issues by borrowing or buying a portable tank to use for testing. Three-gallon plastic tank from wallymart would be sufficient.

If it is a fuel problem, it's either too much or not enough. Either the carb bowls are running dry, or else they're flooding. And it's probably both carbs, cause I believe that motor will run on 2 cylinders (poorly, but it'll run). If there's still gas in the carb bowls when it stops, then it must be flooded. Or else both carbs have some kind of trash in the bowls. If not, it's either a tank/hose/pump issue, or else the float valves are sticking shut.

You probably can't replicate the symptoms by running it on the muffs (don't rev it up without a load on the motor), but if you can manage to be back at the dock when the symptoms start, maybe you can do some troubleshooting on the water. Drain the carbs to see how much gas is there. Do a spark test right when it starts acting up. See if the spark plugs are wet or dry.

Have you called the tech that did your carbs about this problem? In my experience (as an amateur outboard mechanic), sometimes you rebuild carbs and get a puzzling or otherwise "less than stellar" result. You take 'em apart & put 'em back together again and then everything works. Sometimes you can see what the problem was, other times you just "get it right" the 2nd time without ever discovering what went wrong the first time. Wouldn't expect that from a pro, but it's bound to happen sometimes.

I said earlier that if the fuel pump diaphram gets punctured gas will leak out the pump housing, that's from personal experience. But, I know that faulty fuel pumps can leak gas down the pulse line into the manifold, flooding the motor. I don't see how that pump can leak down the manifold without leaking out the back of the housing, but I can't say for a fact that it won't. You don't have any other symptoms of faulty fuel pump, but the repair kit is only about $12 and it doesn't take long to do. After ruling everything else out, a pump rebuild wouldn't be a bad idea. You'll need some gasket remover and permatex #2.

Keep us posted.
 

Rscardina

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May 3, 2010
Messages
513
Re: engine stalls out at wot

concerning the fuel line holding pressure - when the engine stalls and i pump the bulb and it does start to collapse to some degree.It doesnt go completely flat but more "limp" for a lack of a better term.
As for as if the fuel tank is venting, I can blow compressed air into the vent and air blows back out at me.I'm not sure if this is correct or how else to test it.
When i tried to install the new fuel line and bulb last night, i could not get it to prime. I pumped the bulb until i was blue in the face with no result.I tried holding the bulb in a verticle position,up and down, sideways, standing on one foot, standing on my hands, but it would not prime. I put the old fuel line/bulb assembly back on and it primed right up.
The tech that rebuilt my carbs did a compression test (115) on all cylinders and a spark test.I have kind of ruled that out for now. I am thinking it's fuel related but dont know where to go from here.

if you have a new primer bulb and the arrow is going in the correct direction..and you are pumping like crazy to no avail...then you have an issue with air between the bulb...alll the way back to the tank..!!

I would check, starting at the tank..the pickup tube in the tank has a screen that may get clogged, secondly go to the water seperator and make sure its good an tight and then move past the bulb and make sure you have a solid connection at the motor...

i truly think you are chasing a fuel ghost that is not at the negine but before it..

if you want to prove the theory you can get a small seperate tank and connect it and see how she does..if she kicks butt then you have the answer..
 

Daviet

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Re: engine stalls out at wot

Maybe you could borrow a 6 gallon tank and see if it runs properly on it, that would narrow down a fuel problem.
 

brett1970

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Messages
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Re: engine stalls out at wot

if you have a new primer bulb and the arrow is going in the correct direction..and you are pumping like crazy to no avail...then you have an issue with air between the bulb...alll the way back to the tank..!!

I would check, starting at the tank..the pickup tube in the tank has a screen that may get clogged, secondly go to the water seperator and make sure its good an tight and then move past the bulb and make sure you have a solid connection at the motor...

i truly think you are chasing a fuel ghost that is not at the negine but before it..

if you want to prove the theory you can get a small seperate tank and connect it and see how she does..if she kicks butt then you have the answer..

This was my thought also. But what i don't understand is that when i hook my old fuel line/bulb assembly, it primes back up ?? I don't have enough daylight left to take it to the water in the evenings after i get off of work.
I am going to try and check the pick up tube in the tank this evening and go from there. If no luck, i will buy a external tank and see where that leads me.
 

brett1970

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Jun 9, 2010
Messages
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Re: engine stalls out at wot

I have a new female fuel connector at the motor but it does'nt fit completely flush at the base on the male connector.I don't know if this is normal but every female connector fits this way.
 

Rscardina

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May 3, 2010
Messages
513
Re: engine stalls out at wot

This was my thought also. But what i don't understand is that when i hook my old fuel line/bulb assembly, it primes back up ?? I don't have enough daylight left to take it to the water in the evenings after i get off of work.
I am going to try and check the pick up tube in the tank this evening and go from there. If no luck, i will buy a external tank and see where that leads me.

if you have a fuel seperator and removed the old bulb.. its possible the gas fed back toward the tank..this could leave you with air in the seperator and make it a tad harder.. you should test the bulb too..

disconnect the new bulb and put it in a tank of gas and pump slowly.. you should see gas rise up the tube.. if not..you may just have a bad new bulb..if it works the you are definitely dragging air in
 

brett1970

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Messages
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Re: engine stalls out at wot

if you have a fuel seperator and removed the old bulb.. its possible the gas fed back toward the tank..this could leave you with air in the seperator and make it a tad harder.. you should test the bulb too..

disconnect the new bulb and put it in a tank of gas and pump slowly.. you should see gas rise up the tube.. if not..you may just have a bad new bulb..if it works the you are definitely dragging air in

I do have a fuel/water seperator. I will do the bulb test on the new bulb this evening. Just seems strange that i can put the old fuel line/ bulb assembly back on and it primes up easy.
 

Rscardina

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May 3, 2010
Messages
513
Re: engine stalls out at wot

I do have a fuel/water seperator. I will do the bulb test on the new bulb this evening. Just seems strange that i can put the old fuel line/ bulb assembly back on and it primes up easy.

I agree..thats why I am saying if you use the new bulb on a small container of gas, like the lawnmower jug or something like that and she pulls no problem then the bulb is ok..if it doesnt you may have a bad new bulb...or it just needs some gas in it to lube it up a bit since it is a checkvalve afterall..

it is odd though..
 
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