Engine swap (repower)

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

CA -- thats exactly what I would look at first. We know the timer base is moving to the stop since it gets to 28*. The carb butterflies need to be horizontal at wide open throttle. <br /><br />It could indeed be that simple. Lets hope so.<br /><br />Dont worry. You have a V4 crossflow. The V6 crossflow will indeed produce more torque. But that V4 could be a lot better than it is now!
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Wait a minute -- the difference between the 17 or the 15 and the 19 is only 100 rpm?
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

YES.. it is very minimal change no matter the prop..
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Yuck -- but OK. <br /><br />After you run and pull them out -- do they all look the same?
 

CATransplant

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Wow! Such a small change defies logic, IMO. I can't figure what would do that.
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Yes they are all black, not brown, the motor definatly runs rich.. I premix at 44 to 1.<br /><br />The motor says to run UL77V, but I was told I could run the cheaper UL78's
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

There is NO MORE than a 300 RPM difference between the 15 to 19 props..
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Actually you can run the (Q)L77JC4's but no matter. OK, so they all look the same. Now, 2 questions;<br /><br />1- Have you looked down the carb throat to make very very sure that BOTH butterflies are flat at wot?<br /><br />2- Is it using a LOT more fuel?
 

CATransplant

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

I'm not questioning the small difference between probs. I'm just trying to figure out why there is such a small difference. Takes a lot more oomph to turn that 19 than the 15. There should be a big difference in WOT RPMs with those props.<br /><br />If this were happening on a car, I'd be looking for an exhaust restriction of some kind. I'm not familiar enough with your particular outboard to know if that's possible, but that would be where I'd look on a car.<br /><br />Something other than the prop seems to be restricting output on your engine. Otherwise, you'd be turning that 15-pitch prop at a much higher RPM than the 19. Hmmm.....
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Yes the butterflies are horizontal at WOT.<br /><br />Fuel consumption is good, not.. excessive.<br /><br />I can run (Q)L77JC4's without hitting the top of the piston???? The UL77V's are flat verses having an electrode.. <br /><br />I have 2 sets of the (Q)L77JC4's plugs but wasnt sure I could run them safely..
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

They'll be fine. <br /><br />I'll be right back...........work's getting in the way again.....
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

This was my original intention with posting on the site..<br /><br />I have a 1987 150HP Johnson OB. If the motor is swapable like DHadley says, I want to do that so I can pull my kids skiing this season.<br /><br />In the meantime I can look into why my V4 isnt performing like it use too...<br /><br />I just want to make sure the 150 can use the 1980 harness plug etc...
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Its all the same. The prop is the only thing that wont swap.
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

DHadley.... you are the man sir.........<br /><br />So based on my comments, what would be your opnion on my V4?? Poor rebuild? Is there a senseable reason to only bore 1 cylinder and not all 4?? Could my reeds be bad??<br /><br />I am drawing straws now......
 

Dhadley

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Somethings not right with the V4 -- obviously. It has to be fairly apparent, once we look in the right place. <br /><br />As for boring only 1 cylinder, thats OK as long as the wear on the other 3 is within tolerance. On a 25 year old motor its pretty hard to believe that it was not worn past .004 over standard.<br /><br />Does the motor idle OK?
 

CATransplant

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Dhadley,<br /><br />From the whole thread, it sounds like this engine is running basically OK...just not producing enough power to turn the revs it should, regardless of the prop that's on there. That seems key to me...the lack of a significant difference in RPM with different pitch props.<br /><br />He said the throttles are opening fully. I looked at the diagrams for this engine, and can't find any source for an exhaust restriction.<br /><br />It's running a bit rich, but, apparently, not hugely rich, since fuel economy isn't badly affected.<br /><br />I can see a couple of possibilities, here. First, he's using surface discharge plugs, according to what he says. Plugs can certainly restrict an engine at high RPMs, so that seems like a good, and easy, thing to check. I've seen that happen on automobile engines. Plugs seem to be just fine, until a certain RPM is reached.<br /><br />Second, the lack of a difference in RPM with different prop pitches sounded like the symptoms of a restricted exhaust, but I can't see any way that could happen. What if the restriction is on the other end of the engine? Looking at the diagrams, this engine has four sets of reeds held in blocks. Could there be a problem there? If one set was messed up, somehow restricting flow, the symptoms might well be as described. One cylinder would be starved of fuel/air and refuse to perform at some RPM level...just not getting enough fuel to function properly.<br /><br />I just can't get past the lack of an RPM difference between props. That seems to me to indicate some sort of restriction or rpm-linked failure somewhere in the cycle. I just can't see it being a purely power-related issue.<br /><br />Another issue could be compression. Even though it was rebuilt, I wonder if the owner has checked compression on all four cylinders. I didn't see any mention of that.<br /><br />It's an interesting question. I hope it doesn't go away. I'm really curious.
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

Sorry, I had to run yesterday.. I verified the butterflies last night just to be 100% positive.<br />YES they are fully open at WOT.<br /><br />As far as a fuel starved cylinder, I would expect the signs of that to reflect on the plug check. They are all identical black.. It is definatly rich..<br /><br />As far as the type of plug, I was running the UL77V plugs prior to it blowing up in "01". I didnt think plugs would make that big of a difference.<br /><br />I also confirmed, that the RPM over all 3 props is no more than a 300 RPM change. Top speed is obviously higher with the 19 pitch, but she lags bad out of the hole..<br /><br />This I know, prior to being rebuilt, I ran UL77V surface discharge plugs and the same 19 pitch prop with amazing results.. 6000 RPM @ 50+ MPH.<br /><br />And if I havent said so yet.. I really appreciate your input, I have been dealing with this for 3 years now, The engine builder takes NO responsibility in this matter so I do really appreciate the help....
 

ddbyrd3

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Re: Engine swap (repower)

I will perform a compression check in the next 2 days or so based on my time frame.. Going to Laughlin with the wife this weekend.....
 
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