Erik's Winter Project

[erikgreen]

Well, I have a little bit of time today, so I thought I'd put up a teaser about my planned winter boat project.

A bit of background: I got my first boat in December '06, tried to fix it up, and ran out of steam. I then got a boat in better shape, and started fixing that one. I bought a third boat to get parts for the second, stripped it, and junked the hull. I just junked the hull for the first boat, so I'm down to one working boat, the repairs of which have been chronicled pretty well here. I have a bit of work to do on that one too, but it's mechanically sound, and I'll winterize and store for the winter soon.

But... I've had the first boat on the lakes (great) this summer, gotten hours on the water and learned what I like and don't like about it. It's basically a compromise between my desire to be able to handle the boat solo and my desire for enough space to sleep (uncomfortably) on board. It's ok for both of these, but it's really not great at either one.

My solution is going to be to finish fixing up the first boat (and use it next summer too) while I work on getting two more boats. The big one will be a displacement hull trawler or cruiser, with diesel engines, maybe 35 feet or larger, up to about 55-60 feet if I can find one that large for the price I can afford.

This thread is going to be about the smaller one, which is meant to be a boat light enough to tow easily, seaworthy enough for the great lakes and carrying a four pack of divers, big enough to let me run my sonar and tow the occasional tube, and small enough so I'm not straining to keep it under control all the time.

Here's the really controversial bit: I want exactly what I want, and the only way to get a perfect boat on my budget in my time frame is to build one from scratch This is a board about restoration and BUILDING, right?

So, here's a plan view. Some of you will recognize this hull and be able to pull up pics and specs from elsewhere, but the thing to keep in mind is that this is only the basic hull. I'm going to modify it in a way that will make the original designer cringe

Specs are: 19 foot hull, epoxy/glass/plywood construction, 1900lbs displacement, 90-150 horse motor (I may use two 50s or so, dunno yet).

I'll be adding on to this thread when I start construction, which is probably going to be in about two months at this point. I have to clean out my build space (it's different from my other boat's build space) and install lighting and insulation there.

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

WAH HOOOO

ok....im getting the popcorn and chips.......the beer is cooling in the fridge....

go twin 125's

cant wait !.....a full blown conversion.

all my best to ya.

cheers
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

btw....one thing ive allways wanted in a shop.....besides a really big honkin compressor.....was an air suction fan.....

 

[GO OVRIT]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

So are you starting completely from scratch, or with a bare hull like the drawing? Long term I want to build one from scratch. First I'm going to keep reading here and do some restos on what I have. Good luck and take lots of pics.

btw....one thing ive allways wanted in a shop.....besides a really big honkin compressor.....was an air suction fan.....

I thought you were going to say Corona on tap.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

I'm going to build the hull from scratch, matching the design and build order up to the point where I'll be deviating from the design, then I'll do my own thing after that point. I'll be using epoxy, marine ply, and biaxial fabric for the most part.

I wish I could start with a finished hull, but one thing I want for this boat is no rot, construction shortcuts, previous owner goofs, poor quality materials, and years of wear and tear. I'm not going to buy and modify a new boat, so I'm going to build a hull up myself

Oddly, I just got a second and third compressor for my shop... my neighbor has been cleaning his garage out. He had beer tap handles too, but no beer pumps or dispensers

Erik

 

[GO OVRIT]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

Where did you get your plans. I've searched some and havn't found exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[redfury]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

OOOH, neat! Perhaps if I have some time this winter I can swing by and give you a hand ( read:meddle ) I was hoping your winter project was going to be doing the stringers and transom on my boat

 

[Mark42]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

A few years ago I researched building my own 17 foot pocket cruiser from scratch. Using the Stitch and Glue method, plywood and glass.

If you price out the actual cost of building just the basic hull, you will realize that thousands of dollars will be saved by buying a trashed boat cheap (or even free) and stripping it just for the hull. Not only will you save money, but hundreds of hours of your time. And then the money and time you save on using an existing hull can be spent on stringers, floor, outboard, etc.

BTW, every plan to build a boat from scratch (Glen-L, Devon, etc) are all required to be built from epoxy, not poly, so the cost of epoxy alone will run close to $1000, plus the cost of high tech glass like 1708 and you can watch the price of your project escalate rapidly.

Make a spread sheet of all the parts you will need, from stainless fasteners, to gauges, wire, fuel tank, hoses, steering, paint, plywood, rod holders, navagation lights, etc. You will be amazed how quickly it all adds up.

And that is why I finally decided to just buy a boat that was close to what I wanted, then modify it (Bayliner cuddy with my custom hard top). It saved me thousands.

Just something to think about.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

Thanks, Mark.

Actually I have done that, and I know it's not as cheap as a pre-made hull. But for what I'm planning, I want a specific hull shape, and I might have to wait a very long time to get it, if it ever comes along for sale.

So I'm going to bite the bullet and build. At least the costs are spread out over time....

Erik

 

[Mark42]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

I know how you feel about scratch building your boat. You do get exactly what you want, and there are no questions about quality or integrity.

Hopefully, in 5 or 6 years, I will have added a two or three bay garage out back and will build a 22 or 24 ft cruiser. Will probably start with a used hull to save time, and build the rest custom.

Nothing like having a unique custom boat.

Good luck with the project.

Mark

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

Oh, and I should mention I'm saving some money using recycled fittings. I've junked two boats now, so I have a fair amount of rail and hull fittings. I also can TIG weld, so I might do a custom fitted tank.

Should be fun to see where I can save money without cutting quality.

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

erik....btw.....i was thinking about your proj as i was sanding last night and scrubbing the hull with aceitone....

shop supplies can cost a bundle......with what you are planning to do.....i would see about getting a 45 gal drum of aceitone and what ever else you can in bulk.....

im getting 5 gals a time of aceitone at 60 bucks a bucket.....one gal is 28 dollars.......so a ballel (if you can find a supplier) would probabaly be well worth the investment......(i just went thru my 6th 5 gal pail)

....so .....i know this is just a teaser thread.....but can you give an insight on basic construction?....are you gonna get an old hull and use it as a plug?....build a plug and pull your hull?.....or build a plug and pull a mold?........

cheers
oops

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

I wish I could use a mold/plug

Good thought on the acetone, but I'm 99% sure my local ordinances would disallow storage of that anywhere near my neighborhood. Fire and explosion hazard, etc. I really need to move out of the city. I will be buying my epoxy, glass, and fillet material bulk, and of course the marine ply (I'm going to source that locally rather than ship).

Okay, basic construction is actually stitch and glue, for those familiar with the method. So, this is a cored hull (I know, ick). The method is basically to loft the panels flat on the floor, cut them to shape, and then assemble them on a "strongback" which is a ladder shaped very rigid base form with a mix of "molds" or forming pieces not part of the hull, and bulkheads which become permanent parts of the hull. The molds and bulkheads are cross sections of the hull shape, like ribs. The rest of the panels run stem->stern.

So I will build the strongback, loft the molds and bulkheads, put the molds and bulkheads on the strongback, then loft the panels. Some butt jointing of panels will be needed (ply comes in 8 foot sections, the boat is 19 feet) and then I will stitch the panels together in place on the strongback.

Stitching is the process of joining panels with pieces of copper wire or zip ties through small holes at the edges. Basically it connects the pieces but allows motion and adjustment. You stitch the whole hull together before doing the final alignment, then when it's aligned you use some putty to glue the pieces in place.

Once the pieces are glued with putty, then you can remove the stitches and fill the holes with epoxy. At that point you do a final check for a true hull, then you putty and tape the seams with biax fabric.

At this point you have a hull shaped wood box that needs to be covered with glass. So you cover the outside with a layer of 1208 biaxial and epoxy, one long piece from bow to stern, with some overlap between each yard wide strip on the bottom and sides.

Once that's done you fair the bottom. If you did a good job with the putty, tape, and covering there shouldn't be a lot to do. Final step is to attach the spray rail and strakes, which are formed from small pieces of wood. They get puttied to the hull and covered with more putty and faired.

Then you prime and paint the hull (epoxy has to be covered) and you're ready to turn it over to cover the inside with glass, build the deck, install hardware, etc.

Now.... I'll be stopping at a certain point within the above construction and deviating from plan somewhat. I'm keeping what I'm doing as a surprise because I don't know if it'll work yet, and how it'll look. So you'll have to wait for that.

But I really thought someone would have recognized this design by now. It's a C-19, or Classic 19, from Bateau.com (Jacques Mertens design). Here's a link to the product page:

http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=C19

Also, here's a link to the build log of someone who made this boat. He did some nice customizing too:
http://www.outbackpics.com/Boat/Building the Bateau C19.htm

I chose this design because A) It looks nice B) All his designs are lighter and stronger than production boats, due to materials and construction C) It's designed to be seaworthy, a true offshore boat (and is self bailing) D) They're easy for first time builders and E) Jacques reads the bbs and you can consult with him on modifications. Although I have a feeling when he sees what I'm going to do with this design he may disown me

So anyway, that's the plan. I'd really prefer a solid glass hull or even foam core to a marine plywood one, but the core is crucial to the build method, and it's what makes it easy, so I'll just have to settle for using high quality plywood, and maybe making the transom out of something besides wood.

I'm planning to have the bulk of the boat ready for sea trials next June, with the remainder of the work completed next summer.

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

my uncle built a 27 footer in our garage using that method when i was a kid......i helped him (watched) for hours........lotta work.....really nice boat.....

thats one heck of a time line.....if it was anyone else id tell them x3.....

the popcorn is in the popper and the beers cold.....gonna be a great show..(proj)

cheers
oops

 

[redfury]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

my uncle built a 27 footer in our garage using that method when i was a kid......i helped him (watched) for hours........lotta work.....really nice boat.....

thats one heck of a time line.....if it was anyone else id tell them x3.....

the popcorn is in the popper and the beers cold.....gonna be a great show..(proj)

cheers
oops

Yeah, too bad you'll be too busy on your boat to enjoy the show

Naw, this works perfectly for us Iboaters....Kinda like the overlap from Baseball to Football and Basketball for sports fans.

Erik, good luck with it. I'd offer you my roll of fiberglass for cheap, but since you are going epoxy, I have no idea if it would do you any good or not.

I still find it amazing that you have so many troubles with your neighbors with the set up you have...I'd have thought you could do just about anything your heart desired there without the neighbors/city complaining.

Goes to show, you never know what your FWM factor is ( PM me if you want to know what the acronym means, I can't post it here )

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

as far as the neighbors........


he walks tall .....boats hard.....and carrys a big stick !.....

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

Erik, good luck with it. I'd offer you my roll of fiberglass for cheap, but since you are going epoxy, I have no idea if it would do you any good or not.

I still find it amazing that you have so many troubles with your neighbors with the set up you have...I'd have thought you could do just about anything your heart desired there without the neighbors/city complaining.

Thanks for the offer. I actually still have about 30 yards of 8 oz. cloth left, that should do me pretty well for "incidentals". And I'm going to bite the bullet and order enough 1208 biax for the project... I think my materials bill will be about $1500 for glass alone.

Some of my neighbors are great... I have one whom I've been helping clean out his garage. He's a pack rat, so it's digging for treasure and trash. So far I've gotten 10 6 foot oak 2x4s, two air compressor heads, two toolboxes, a bag of medium weight CSM, a hamms beer lighter, antique typewriter, vintage adult books, a nudie card deck, and a spare tire and rim for my boat trailer

The others are pretty much either apathetic or jerks, but if I do my build indoors (it's winter anyway) then they can't say much. I still think we're heading toward a showdown in court long term, but maybe they'll die off, sell off, or lighten up. I wish I had more neighbors with boats.

Erik

 

[Mark42]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

I like the C19 hull. I had thought of building this cabin version of the c19 (with a hard top), but stopped after pricing it all out.

I don't see why you can't start with any deep V 19' hull with high freeboard and build from there. You would probably get a higher-tech hull than what the bateau plan will give you. They are restricted to what shapes the average home builder can made from a few sheets of ply. The mass produced production boats have a lot more R&D into them, and they will most likely give better performance and great savings. I would be willing to bet that a used Bayliner or Searay hull will also give greater fuel economy over the Beateau hull. But that's just a guess knowing they do hundreds of hours of sea trials and CAD designs.

Still, its a good plan for a good boat. Looking forward to watching the build.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

Well, the major problem is that a "junked" hull costs more than just the acquisition. Both of the 20-ish foot sea rays I've had needed stringers and decks done, which took a lot of time, and generated debris.

I've kinda gotten tired of working on rotted wood, plus not knowing what's the next problem, etc.

Plus if I ever choose to sell (dunno if I would) the resale value of "custom built deep water boat with deep vee hull" is a lot higher than "modified 1978 sea ray hull with custom plywood and epoxy work"

I also want this boat to be lighter than my current one.. if I use a glass hull, especially an old one, as a base, then it'll be heavier than I want, so I have to go to a shorter boat to meet the weight requirements I have.

Finally, the "special" mod I'm going to do to the boat will require a pretty major hull change, and it's much easier to do that on a from-scratch boat than modding an existing hull.

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Erik's Winter Project

your either gonna step it or move the transom foward leaving sponsons out the back arent ya?