eska carb rebuild kit?

[gary79]

okay, I got a carb rebuild kit from eskaman on ebay. says it will rebuild a carb on any eska motor starting with 217. mine's a 4.5 hp, 1971 217-59460 model.. the existing needle valve has a black viton end with a coily spring attached to it. if there was a viton seat, it's long gone. the rebuild kit includes a new all metal needle valve that has a hook spring that attaches to it, and a red viton seat that apparently you insert up the brass sleeve. so I did that, it bottomed out. the problem: the needle valve sits out to far for the float to ever "float" so I adjusted the tab on the float all the way, and the float is still not going to float. the instructions with the kit are vague, barely readable, and kind of a "one size fits all" description. I replaced the flapper valve and gasket, and the reddish orange rubber accelerator thingy. outside of a few gaskets this kit isn't doing me much good. the needle and seat is my problem. I could have bought this same needle & seat from my local shop last week for $10, instead of dropping $30 on this kit, and I still got the same problem. HELP is what I need. so feel free to speak up. I'm all ears as they say. somebody tell me I am doing something wrong or how to correct this situation. I am about ready to take a modern lawn mower engine, make an adapter plate, and slap it on this eska lower unit.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

message eskaman2008 and explain what your issue is and give him your model no. and give him a chance to help you before you slam him with bad feedback, If you had done your home work you would have realized this kit below was the kit you needed. you should have called certified parts corp anyway insted of ebay, I get screwed everytime I buy junk from ebay.

ESKA/SEARS COMPLETE FUEL PUMP& CARBURETOR KIT~up to1972

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ESKA...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3cae479efa

compair the diagrams and you will see.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...ription=CARBURETOR&documentId=00010370&blt=06

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

sorry mrcrabs, the kit you say I should have bought if I had done my homework is not going to work either. enlarge the picture on the ebay site, and you will see an all metal needle valve and the seat and the little hook spring, not what the sears diagram shows, this seller also mentions this will work on prior to 1972, starting with 217..... it's got the same needle and seat that came with my carb kit from eskaman. and who said anything about slamming him. maybe you should read closer and do your homework. I got on here thinking there was a way around this. that I was missing possibly an obvious(but not to me) solution. and that this might be quicker. if you read my post, eskaman in his ebay info, states this carb kit may be used to rebuild any Eska starting with 217..... mine is 217-59460. it should work. if I don't get an answer here, I will contact him. and it's possible that someone did some carb work, or put on a similiar carb yrs ago. I don't think that it was, but you never know. this engine was given to me. I have no history on it.

so anybody got anything helpful? anybody run across this before?

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

calm down, its got a viton tiped needle, kind of rare, lets see how else can I put this its simple and can be dealt with and sorry if your offended and didn't mean that you would slam him but try and work it out, I guess that came across wrong as I have made that mistake in the past and was looking out for your best outcome....been along day.
but the diagram in the pic is what I was going by. I can't tell if the needle in the pic is all aluminum or viton tiped but seller claims it fits your model. Pre 72, and I do my home work and it may be the viton needle can be replaced by a viton seat and solid needle but I doubt it, thank you....

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

Let's take one item at a time----

<I got a carb rebuild kit from eskaman on ebay. says it will rebuild a carb on any eska motor starting with 217. mine's a 4.5 hp, 1971 217-59460 model.. the existing needle valve has a black viton end with a coily spring attached to it. if there was a viton seat, it's long gone.>

Was the original problem that the float/needle/seat was failing to shut off the flow of fuel? Tecumseh used MANY slightly different carbs over the years and it's often difficult to interpret exactly which carb your engine had originally. A viton tipped needle is normally used with a metal seat and the viton seats normally use a solid needle (but not always!) so someone may have already played 'mix & match' with your carb or subbed a different carb. If you fool with these old motors long enough you'll encounter some very 'creative' backyard engineering. Sometimes it even works.

<the rebuild kit includes a new all metal needle valve that has a hook spring that attaches to it, and a red viton seat that apparently you insert up the brass sleeve. so I did that, it bottomed out. the problem: the needle valve sits out to far for the float to ever "float" so I adjusted the tab on the float all the way, and the float is still not going to float.>

Is there a possibility that you are trying to fit the float upside down? That would certainly produce the problem described. Look for a witness mark on the float tang that the needle bears against to verify you're fitting it right side up. That said I seem to recall a similar problem that I resolved by removing the 'coily spring' from the needle which then fitted perfectly. Doesn't sound like the same problem you're having but does illustrate that one encounters some strange phenomena on old outboards.

<the instructions with the kit are vague, barely readable, and kind of a "one size fits all" description.>

My experience with 'one size fits all' descriptions is that they are incomplete. The sentence should conclude with 'but nothing well'!

<I replaced the flapper valve and gasket, and the reddish orange rubber accelerator thingy. outside of a few gaskets this kit isn't doing me much good. the needle and seat is my problem. I could have bought this same needle & seat from my local shop last week for $10, instead of dropping $30 on this kit, and I still got the same problem. HELP is what I need. so feel free to speak up. I'm all ears as they say. somebody tell me I am doing something wrong or how to correct this situation.>

We're between a rock and a hard place not being able to see and handle the carb and parts so the best we can do is make logical suggestions based on your descriptions from our own meager backlog of experience. We get it right surprisingly often under the circumstances but we frequently shoot wide of the mark too in all honesty.

I have to agree with mrcrabs---give the vender an opportunity to help you before getting bent out of shape.

<I am about ready to take a modern lawn mower engine, make an adapter plate, and slap it on this eska lower unit.>

There's a guy somewhere in the Midwest who has been making a business of just that for some time now.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

only one way to put the float on, the "ears" on the float dictate that position. so I dropped eskaman an email for help. I hope something good happens or I've spent $34 on gas tank sealer, and $30 on carb kit to no avail other than a marine paper weight. at this point either the float or the needle valve have to be modified, or the correct needle valve sent. I'm going to have to summon up all my creative & 40 yrs of wrenching abilities to modify the float or needle valve. surely there has got to be a solution, I can't be the only one. the carb was drained, but not the tank when it was put away 20+ yrs ago, and at first it ran fine, but fuel was running out of the pinholes in the tank. so I got a kit from Eastwood, which sealed the tank fine. so after that fix, I test ran it and noticed fuel dripping off the carb bowl, and erratic running. I mean I got it started, and it had a mind of its own, run pretty good, then speed up, get the RPM seriously cranking , and then rpm's down and shut down in like 3-4 seconds. that usually indicates flooding.

I like the compactness of this motor and the general principle. I mean it's a lawn mower engine on top of a lower unit. and it's cheap. in yesterday's paper, a marine dealer had a "clearance" sale, included in that was a 1995 9.9 hp Johnson for $950. 15 yrs old and still almost a $1000. I can buy a new Briggs 6.5 hp motor for $140, and it will do fine for years. and I can replace it with a lot of lawn mower engines before we get to a $1000. maybe somebody should start making these again. sense and sensibility are what made this country great, and are so absent today. btw, I'm 58 yo, and I remember when we built chit to last and be fixable, not thrown away. that's why people like the old stuff.

stay tuned.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

a guy across the street had an eska in a garage sale. it's missing the gas tank and some other parts, so it didn't sell. he keeps mentioning it to me, thinking I'm gonna give him $25-$50 for it. btw, its older than mine and has a different carb. I'm thinking I'll offer him $5(scrap metal money) and then look for an engine to mount on top. I had an old Scotts lawn mower given to me that was junk but the Briggs fired on the 3rd pull after sitting outside for a year. I put that engine on a Lawn Boy deck, got the machine shop to cut the motor bushing to accept the wider drive belt. that thing goes like hell and mows thru anything. I love tinkering.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

I mean it's a lawn mower engine on top of a lower unit

No its a snow blower engine Gary, and there very dependable and as tommy 2 strokes say these engines are very robust.
your engine model is 642-07c, carb kit 631373

93 SKU: 631505
Inlet Needle & Spring Assy. 1 $5.30


http://www.psep2.biz/pages/parts/viewbybrand/91/TecumsehPowerCompany.aspx


Homework done,

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

I got an "answer" from eskaman. I need to "convert" from the old needle and seat to the new one. but he doesn't say how to do this. he said the viton tipped needle valves were short lived because they stuck. so I messaged him back to give me some clues on this conversion.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

mrcrabs, thanks for the info. I'm gonna see what eskaman says before I order from Pat's. you know I did all kinds of searches, with different search engines, for days, I even searched with carb kit # 631373 and never found any one with the parts.

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

a guy across the street had an eska in a garage sale. it's missing the gas tank and some other parts, so it didn't sell. he keeps mentioning it to me, thinking I'm gonna give him $25-$50 for it. btw, its older than mine and has a different carb. I'm thinking I'll offer him $5(scrap metal money) and then look for an engine to mount on top. I had an old Scotts lawn mower given to me that was junk but the Briggs fired on the 3rd pull after sitting outside for a year. I put that engine on a Lawn Boy deck, got the machine shop to cut the motor bushing to accept the wider drive belt. that thing goes like hell and mows thru anything. I love tinkering.

I sent you a message in relation to your post above. Check your PMs. Tom

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

well, eskamann isn't much help and says it's not his fault, altho he clearly states that this carb kit is for eska 217 series outboards. some how I supposed to make this work. his last comment is for me to stick the old needle valve back in. now if that needle valve was any good I would not have ordered his friggin rebuild carb kit. what a maroon, as bugs bunny would say. geez, guess I'm out $30.

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

<eskamann---his last comment is for me to stick the old needle valve back in.>

FWIW---if anything----

I NEVER replace a good solid stainless steel inlet needle with a viton tipped POS! I have 60+ year old motors operating just fine with their original inlet needles and metal seats.

It is the viton tipped ones that stick. There was a very good reason that the little wire clips to hold the needle to the float weren't needed until after the viton tipped needle appeared on the scene.

I suspect that his advice is worth a try if only to see if something else you repaired or replaced fixed the leak.

I'll take every old solid stainless needle that anyone wants to send!

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

well, eskamann isn't much help and says it's not his fault

Now slam him

Have you got the tecumseh manual?

if not pm with your e-mail addy and I will show you where there at and help you with the update, I don't see a big problem. you could be closer than you think.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

could I use the new needle valve(it's all metal,no viton) and the original metal seat? would metal to metal work or actually seal?? eskaman wants a tel call meeting, so I that is on for tomorrow morning.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

nope, need the viton to make the seal, will be interesting to know what eskaman says, really theres only one reasonable answer and that is to install the viton seat in the fuel inlet tube.

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

<could I use the new needle valve(it's all metal,no viton) and the original metal seat? would metal to metal work or actually seal??>

IF (big IF) the carb originally used a matched metal needle and seat yes. I haven't yet seen a Tecumseh carb on an Eska that has a replaceable metal seat but I haven't yet seen 'em all either.

But if all you have is a well cast into or drilled into the body of the carb without a brass seat insert then it was probably meant to use a viton donut seat pressed into the well.

All of my antiques used a replaceable brass seat with a solid stainless needle. I've seen a very few seats that I wasn't able use but never a SS needle that wasn't still good. I've been able to lap a few 'edgy' seats and needles to seal.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

tom, the seat is brass, pressed or inserted into the body of the carb. obviously Tecumseh didn't have much faith in it sealing or they would not have put a Viton tip on the original needle. so I'm gonna hang loose and see what he says when he calls.

 

[gary79]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

apparently he is not calling me. errrrr.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: eska carb rebuild kit?

Good mornig Gary, any chance you could post a pick of your carb and the fuel inlet tube, one good look would help me to tell if its a any diffrent than the common run of the mill tecumseh carb. Although I'm almost sure from the diagrams it is. And just one other thing before you rebuild it, please get the tecumseh carb manual. Its around all you have to do is ask.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eskaoutboards/



I'm out for the day, off to the yacht club....