Ethanol and 2 strokes

[Redneck]

What to do to prevent ethanol troubles in a late model 2 stroke? A 2001 Yamaha 40hp?

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

You don't need to do anything. Just stay away from anything higher than E-10.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

Burn any article you pick up discussing how bad Ethanol is for engines. If you treated the fuel in the past, and continue to treat the fuel in the future, you will notice no difference. If you ignored the fuel system in the past, never used fuel treatment, you can expect to do a carb rebuild as Ethanol is an excellent fuel system cleaner. The crap it cleans out of your fuel system MAY clog things up. But you should have taken care of the fuel system in the first place so you can't blame Ethanol for the issue as the crud would have bit you anyway. Perhaps just a bit later and with greater consequences. Many engine failures are blamed on the wrong thing when in fact it is a lean condition caused by carb issues that caused the issue. We've used Ethanol blended fuel since 1997. It simply is not a problem.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

I agree with what they said, I've used it for many years with no issues.

 

[BillP]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

I agree...engines have been running the stuff for yrs without problems. The ONLY thing I can think of that is different with marine applications is ethanol fuel sucks humidy in. The longer it sits the more water it captures and E-gas lets h2o by-pass 21mil filters and make it to the combustion chamber. Carbed engines are no longer able capture all the h2o in the carb bowl before being digested by the engine. 10 mil filters don't let water (as much anyway) get past the seperator. Cars use their E-gas fast enough to make it a non issue but boaters let their tanks sit for weeks or months between use. I'm not storing built in vented tanks full anymore and make sure 6 gal tanks have the vent closed when stored. Maybe it will help.

bp

 

[brownies]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

Makes a person wonder though......
I stopped by the saw shop this morning to grab a spark plug for my weed-eater. Just won't run like it should, 2yrs old, never changed the plug, figured it needed it.
Owner had a shelf full of chainsaws. Said most of them belonged to Loggers. Said he'd never seen so many of these guys bringing saws to him complaining about them just not running right. (That's a bunch of rednecks that can overhaul a saw in the woods, while it's stuck in a tree, with vice-grips and a screwdriver if need be). Brining their saws in for repair because they can't make em run correctly.
The reason I was given was ethanol not mixing with the oil at some level and causing problems in 2-strokes at high rpm.
Just makes me wonder if that true, and, if it is.....might have something to do with my outboard motor(s) not running right at high rpm lately.

I know none of these guys are technicians, but, an increase in 2-stroke high rpm problems in small engines and they seem have ruled out everything back to the fuel itself......

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

There are a couple of different fuels out there related to ethanol. First is the e-10 that can be up to 10% ethanol. This will work fine, but the ethanol will absorb moisture, so make sure to add a product such as sea foam, stabil, or similar. The other fuel that has ethanol that can be a problem is reformulated or oxygenated fuel, sold in about 20 areas of the US with high ozone problems. This fuel can cause issues with vapor lock in a hot motor or restart of a hot motor. Typically the 93 octane rated fuels have less ethanol content. One other option is to run leaded race gas / aviation fuel rated at 111 octane. This really works well in older outboards, pre-1976 motors.

Ethanol also will varnish faster then non-ethanol fuels, again not a problem if the fuel is used up quickly (3 weeks or less) or the sea foam / stabil.

 

[marquette]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

we have had ethanol in our gas in minnesota for a long time. i haven't noticed any repair problems caused by it. however i have noticed that my motors won't troll vey well with it. i'm not the brightest bulb on the christmas tree so it took me several trips to canada to figure out why the longer i was there the better my motor would run. when i first would get there i would be running minnesota gas. start adding canadian gas into the tank the better the motor would run. then i started buying what we call "off road gas" here in minnesota that doesn't have ethanol in it and the motors run like they should. i can see where someone could think that because their motor is running rough at idle they would think that the ethanol has damaged their motor rather than realize that the ethanol is the problem. i haven't noticed quite as much of a problem with my 4 stroke. i have no clue why that would be.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

Go back and read my response again. Especially the part about not treating fuel and neglected fuel systems. If ethanol didn't mix with fuel all the two stroke engines in the world would be on a scrap heap. That is simply crap and the more I hear it the more I wonder why people don't ask for the proof. Many of the saws, two stroke and four stroke mowers, weed whips, and yard blowers, snow blowers and anything else with an engine that were built with fuel system parts that are not ethanol tolerant (and I believe most after about 1986 are) will have some issue with fuel line and rubber part disintegration. Saws in particular have a coating on the inside of the tank to prevent the tank from leaking. Ethanol would break down that coating in older saws. My gosh, clean the fuel system and away you go. I have three saws, Craftsman, Poulan and Stihl == all them built prior to 1986 and only the Sears had an issue. The fuel line came apart in the fuel tank. Ask the guy in the shop if he actually thought about the issue rather than just pointing fingers. All ethanol did was hasten an inevitable problem. Did you know that in Brazil nearly all vehicles, boats, and small engines run on ethanol, and it isn't E10 either. It's the genuine article. My car runs on E85.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

While there are potential problems with e10, I don't think I've ever experienced one even after a decade or so of use and I don't really know anybody that can show it was the E10 that caused a problem. I've used 2 strokes for more than 40 years and I think I have fewer issues with bad gas, plugged jets and water now than than in years past, not that I ever had many though. While it may not be as good as straight fuel, I doubt most people could ever tell the difference in a typical 2s or 4s. Don't get me wrong I,m not saying there can't be issues, it's just that every problem (most created by neglect) is not the fault of E10.

Every time a new area decides to start using E10 there are a tremendous number of posts on local forums with people in a panic that their motor will be destroyed with the first sip.

The first time it gets used there may be an issue with junk being flushed into the carb, but a good filter should already be in place and will stop it from getting that far. If the fuel system has been rebuilt in the last 20 years it should be OK too, if it hasn't been, I would consider that neglect.

 

[BillP]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

Us folks in east central Florida are just now getting to use ethanol so there's no local experience to bank on. However, yesterday I talked to a friend of mine who is a mech and owner of a local merc dealership. He keeps up with the merc tech training and has 20+ yrs of experience to stand by. He said that ethanol is causing some sticking problems with aluminum needles. Evidently the h2o is high enough to speed up electrolysis (brass seat) and corrosion on the aluminum. He says some needles are suck so bad it's difficult or impossible to pull out. There was something else about corrosion with FI engine delivery systems but I'm having a senior moment and can't remember what it was. Next time I see him I'll ask.

I really appreciate hearing from you northern guys who have been using the stuff for years. It helps remove bs from hype. Being from the South I hope you understand it's not easy for us to thank yankees for anything...but we do make exceptions sometime...grins.

bp

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

Treat the fuel, install a water separating fuel filter, keep the tank full (especially if there is a prolonged period between uses) and enjoy the darned boat. And that was sound advice before E10 came along.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Ethanol and 2 strokes

He said that ethanol is causing some sticking problems with aluminum needles. Evidently the h2o is high enough to speed up electrolysis (brass seat) and corrosion on the aluminum. He says some needles are suck so bad it's difficult or impossible to pull out. There was something else about corrosion with FI engine delivery systems but I'm having a senior moment and can't remember what it was. Next time I see him I'll ask.

Most likely he?s seeing the results of mixing E-10 with MTBE laced fuels. The resulting white residue could easily be mistaken for aluminum corrosion at first glance.

We saw a lot of this in both the carbs and the injection systems in this area when the switch was made. Lots of troubles with the substance building up in the VST filters on Yamahas